Gear drive vs hydro

[N80]

Some have said that a 45 hp tractor will lose 5 pto hp with HST. First , I do not believe that the power loss is near that significant

You are correct. The PTO HP lost between your tractor and mine (L4400HST vs L4400DT) is negligible. It is given in the spec sheet. Something like 1.5 HP. Neither PTO HP or engine HP is an issue when comparing HST vs geared.

I contend that drawbar HP is an issue. But there is no hard data to support that one way or another.

I wonder how many of us even ever uses the full hp of our tractors.{/quote]

I do. Bushhogging head high grass (or dense fescue). Pushing trees down. Pulling 2 bottom plow. Pulling 7' disk through wet clay. Its not an everyday thing, but it isn't rare either.

When I am pulling my 7' disc, I spin my wheels in 4 wheel drive before I bog the motor down

What kinda tires you got on that thing?

I guess what I am saying is that if I had a loss of a couple of hp I probably couldn't tell or wouldn't miss it anyway.

I agree.

For anyone who has an L4400 gear drive, I wonder what function you can perform that I can not perform with my L4400HST?

Pay it off 5 months earlier.

But again, you are right. I'd guess the two would be very comparable in capability, with a nod going to the HST for all the things HST is good for. Maybe a nod for the DT for ground engaging work. We'll never know that for sure.

Please observe that I am not saying that hydro is better than gear or vice versa. I am just adding my opinions to the discussion on the differences, or lack of, between gear vs hydro.

Right, and as you can see, in general none of these are points that are being disputed.

The primary point of contention, which is THE dead horse in the room, is $/hp. And in my opinion $/dbhp is even more relevant. You say you got your HST for about $500 more than an absolutely identical DT. That's great! But that simply is not a reality in the market in general. Most diligent shoppers are going to pay considerably more for the HST than the DT. And, there are very few models outside of the basic Ls in which you can even find all other things being equal. If you want a Grand L HST for what an L HST costs, you're going to take a real beating in available HP.

But lets say, for the sake of argument, that your HST and my DT cost exactly the same. And lets say, for the sake of argument that it was a fact that HST would be more durable and reliable (I still think that is highly unlikely) but for the sake of argument lets just assume it. There are still people like me who would chose the DT for its simplicity. And I contend that even in the mythical world above, that would still be a very valid reason to own a geared model.

Now you will go to speed and ease of use. I'd recommend that when you make your points that you remember that some geared tractors are fully synchronized and have 'power reverser' capability.

 

[N80]

Anyone here ever took dancing lesson's!

Around issues that is!

No but I know some folks that don't know how to do much of anything else. I doubt they ever needed lessons. Some come by it natural.

 

[Egon]

No but I know some folks that don't know how to do much of anything else. I doubt they ever needed lessons. Some come by it natural.

By Gar, you may be correct my Man.

 

[jk96]

The primary point of contention, which is THE dead horse in the room, is $/hp.

N80 the only thing that I can disagree with in your logic is that you seem to completely disregard the price of convenience. Convenience has a real value, and you seem to completely disregard it in your arguments in $/HP. If convenience had no value I would not have a HST transmission, I would not have purchased cab with heat and a/c, and the radio would have to go as well. I'd never have bought the quick attach loader and would bolt and unbolt my regular bucket, tooth bucket, and pallet forks each time I needed to swap them.

Having done all of this, I could have easily upgraded my very comfortable and efficient DX45 to a Case DX55 or higher gear tractor w/o cab or quick attach. Everything I do could easily be accomplished although many tasks slower, hotter and colder at times, with more damage to the turf accounts I operate on but I would have more HP/$ so I would be much happier right?

 

[Gizmo2]

If you going to be in a hay field all day, i would not want to keep my foot on the hst pedal the hole time. now if the hst had a hand lever that stayed in position like my john deer 316 hst that would be better.
For loader work you need at least the shuttle shift if not hst and for mowing the lawn hst is better even better with the hand lever.

My 2320 has cruise control!!

 

[N80]

N80 the only thing that I can disagree with in your logic is that you seem to completely disregard the price of convenience.

Okay, good point. Let's talk about convenience. How much work could you get done with say, $25,000 if you just hired some green cards to get it done for you? That is VERY convenient. You don't have to do a thing. Obviously that's an extreme example but it just points out how subjective 'convenience' is. To me, having almost any modern tractor is a convenience...almost to the point of luxury.

Convenience has a real value, and you seem to completely disregard it in your arguments in $/HP.

Of course it has value, you pay for it so it has value. No one here is arguing that HST isn't convenient.

If convenience had no value I would not have a HST transmission, I would not have purchased cab with heat and a/c, and the radio would have to go as well. I'd never have bought the quick attach loader and would bolt and unbolt my regular bucket, tooth bucket, and pallet forks each time I needed to swap them.

That's great. But what on earth does it have to do with $/HP? I could not afford ANY of that stuff and for every one of those items I bought I'd have been subtracting HP. (Thats my point, you know.)

Having done all of this, I could have easily upgraded my very comfortable and efficient DX45 to a Case DX55 or higher gear tractor w/o cab or quick attach. Everything I do could easily be accomplished although many tasks slower, hotter and colder at times, with more damage to the turf accounts I operate on but I would have more HP/$ so I would be much happier right?

If you required 55 hp to accomplish the tasks that you wanted to accomplish you would be happier and you'd probably feel like a very comfortable and climate controlled idiot if you couldn't get those things done with the 45 HP full of conveniences. Again: That's my whole point.

 

[scott_vt]

Good Evenin George,
I think we scared Deere755 away, his last post was on page 21 .....

George, Im glad your on my side, your relentless !

 

[tallyho8]

Good Evenin George,
I think we scared Deere755 away, his last post was on page 21 .....
George, Im glad your on my side, your relentless !

Yes, and without knowing better, I would be willing to bet that George excelled on the debating team in high school.

 

[N80]

your relentless !

I know, and unfortunately therapy is not helping all that much.

 

[N80]

Yes, and without knowing better, I would be willing to bet that George excelled on the debating team in high school.

I hope you're not calling me a masterdebater.

Seriously though, the L4400 more than most any other tractor blurs the line of HST vs geared, especially when you can find one at the price you got yours. As I said, with a close price it would be hard for most people to go with the DT. And I seriously wonder if the geared machines will disappear?

P.S.: I was not on the debate team. The tendency to throw things and question the oppositions gender identity made me a poor candidate.