So would you buy a new GM truck now?

[WilliamBos]

I bought a 2002 Pontiac Montana and at less than 80,000 km I had to replace the head gasket, and at my expense. This was done at the dealer, as well as all my oil changes. At less than 150,000 km, and 16 months later I had another leaking head gasket. GM refused to acknowledge there was a problem on their part, and refused any assistance. I contacted the owner of the dealership, phoned GM customer service, and waited for the promised visit from the regional service manager. After over two years I have stopped waiting. This year I bought another vehicle, a Toyota Camry. Does anyone blame me? I would love to support North American manufactures, but having a previous bad experience with Dodge and this one with GM I wasn't about to support them again. If they cannot make it on their own or have their share holders put in more money let them sink. They are not deserving of government assistance. The Japanese auto makers are not having the same problems, and are providing many jobs in North America. If the big three fail the Japanese manufactures will need more employees to produce the increase they will get in sales. We will still have cars and trucks to drive and jobs will still exist.

You ever work for say GM, a union employer and try to apply for an Asian one?? The Titanic will rise from the icy depths of the Atlantic ocean before you, a former unionized GM employee would ever get hired by an Asian auto MFG.

Japanese cars do break down, they are not perfect. I refuse to play the Japanese are perfect and the NA manufacturers are not game, because that is a load of Chickern litter.

JMHO.

 

[Builder]

I bought a 2002 Pontiac Montana and at less than 80,000 km I had to replace the head gasket, and at my expense. This was done at the dealer, as well as all my oil changes. At less than 150,000 km, and 16 months later I had another leaking head gasket. GM refused to acknowledge there was a problem on their part, and refused any assistance. I contacted the owner of the dealership, phoned GM customer service, and waited for the promised visit from the regional service manager. After over two years I have stopped waiting. This year I bought another vehicle, a Toyota Camry. Does anyone blame me? I would love to support North American manufactures, but having a previous bad experience with Dodge and this one with GM I wasn't about to support them again.

You might be interested to know that Toyota recalled more cars than they built in '07.

If they cannot make it on their own or have their share holders put in more money let them sink. They are not deserving of government assistance.

Would it interest you to know that many foreign car companies are subsidized?

The Japanese auto makers are not having the same problems

Actually, Nissan & Honda sales are down more than GM sales last month Nissan was down something like 43%

and are providing many jobs in North America. If the big three fail the Japanese manufactures will need more employees to produce the increase they will get in sales. We will still have cars and trucks to drive and jobs will still exist.

What a way to look at the world. I suppose you have no problem with all Americans working for foreign companies?

 

[Ryan03]

The Japanese auto makers are not having the same problems,.

That statement is simply not true. For example, it is fairly common knowledge that Toyota Tacoma pickups from 1995 to 2000 have had major issues with frame rust. Toyota did take the high road and stand behind and buy them back. That being said, the problem was caused by a lack of rust proofing procedures, to the tune of 800,000 units!!!!!!! If you think Toyota is standing behind these out of the kindness of their heart, you may also beleive in Santa Clause. What the foreign auto makers have figured out is not how to build a superior product, it is good public relations, and that sells alot of cars. Sometimes you have to give a little now to get alot later. This is true in any business, not just the auto industry. Toyota rotors rot quickly in the rust belt just like the domestic car makers rotors, However Toyota and Honda will usualy replace them, even though the defect is not their fault, it is the fault of the corrosive chemicles used today to treat road salt these days. The big 3 usualy just say tuff luck, brakes are only covered for 1 year 12000 miles because of a short sighted management strategy of maximizing profits at all cost, where the Japanese have figured out for example that if they eat some brake jobs, or a few head gaskets, that makes a happy customer who does not complain about their vehicle, even though it has the same problems every other car does, it is not perceived to be that way. The folks who build and sell American cars are just as devoted and just as capable of building a good product as any mainstream foreighn manifacturer. The situation American auto companies are in is the result of this economy first and foremost, and secondly failed management strategies, which left them with more overhead and lower cash reserves than their foreign competitors. If this recession continues on through 09, you will see Honda and Toyota of North America begin to sweat as well, as they will have depleted their reserves as well due to not selling enough cars to meet expenses. IMO.

 

[kycontrols]

You might be interested to know that Toyota recalled more cars than they built in '07.

I would much rather have a car get recalled than get stuck with a bill.

Would it interest you to know that many foreign car companies are subsidized?

Yes our government has hurt the domestic makers. Do we think this plan will work? I figure if the government gets involved they are doomed. Would you want the congress giving you advice on your business

Actually, Nissan & Honda sales are down more than GM sales last month Nissan was down something like 43%

Sales are down everywhere. Except Wal-Mart and McDonalds

I do not feel badly for GM I do feel for all of their suppliers.

I personally consider Chrysler to be more a foreign maker due to their ties to Mercedes

 

[Builder]

That statement is simply not true. For example, it is fairly common knowledge that Toyota Tacoma pickups from 1995 to 2000 have had major issues with frame rust. Toyota did take the high road and stand behind and buy them back. That being said, the problem was caused by a lack of rust proofing procedures, to the tune of 800,000 units!!!!!!! If you think Toyota is standing behind these out of the kindness of their heart, you may also beleive in Santa Clause. What the foreign auto makers have figured out is not how to build a superior product, it is good public relations, and that sells alot of cars. Sometimes you have to give a little now to get alot later. This is true in any business, not just the auto industry. Toyota rotors rot quickly in the rust belt just like the domestic car makers rotors, However Toyota and Honda will usualy replace them, even though the defect is not their fault, it is the fault of the corrosive chemicles used today to treat road salt these days. The big 3 usualy just say tuff luck, brakes are only covered for 1 year 12000 miles because of a short sighted management strategy of maximizing profits at all cost, where the Japanese have figured out for example that if they eat some brake jobs, or a few head gaskets, that makes a happy customer who does not complain about their vehicle, even though it has the same problems every other car does, it is not perceived to be that way. The folks who build and sell American cars are just as devoted and just as capable of building a good product as any mainstream foreighn manifacturer. The situation American auto companies are in is the result of this economy first and foremost, and secondly failed management strategies, which left them with more overhead and lower cash reserves than their foreign competitors. If this recession continues on through 09, you will see Honda and Toyota of North America begin to sweat as well, as they will have depleted their reserves as well due to not selling enough cars to meet expenses. IMO.

My domestic truck dealers have bent over backwards to help me

 

[kenmac]

A Modern Parable.

A Japanese company (xxxxxxx) and an American company (xxxxxxx) decided
to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long
and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the
reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting
company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while
not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent
another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents
and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people
rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the
'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the
rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other
equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension
program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were
channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development
of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital
investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as
bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to
even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable
performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team
was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, the End.

Here's something else to think about: xxxxx has spent the last thirty years
moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money
paying American wages.

xxxxxx has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants
inside the US The last quarter's results:

xxxxxxx makes 4 billion in profits while xxxxxx racked up 9 billion in
losses.

xxxxxxx folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses...

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

Is this why. Last year Toyota sold xxxx # of vehicles & made xxxx B. $......... GM sold about the same amount of vehicles but lost xxxx B $

 

[kycontrols]

I will say that I have been less than satisfied with foreign dealer's service department. I feel they take advantage of women. My sister went in for an oil change and the next thing I knew she spent 30 bucks to get nitrogen in her tires.

The legacy cost that the "Big" 3 has in the pensions are huge. If any go under, I'm sure the cost to the government to "assume" those pension will cost well more than 15 billion dollars. We will have the exact same issues in the public sector, it seems like most cities and public agencies haven't fully funded their pensions. The mathematics behind social security no longer work. The cold and very hard truth is that each one of us cannot depend on the company, the agency or the government. Things happen, companies close, unions lose pensions in investments and government lies.

 

[ninefinger]

I have a 95 F250 7.3 powerstroke that has been trouble free. I have not seen anything from anyone that I would trade my 13 year old truck for 2 of them.

 

[Diamondpilot]

The first new car I bought was a 89 S-10 Blazer 4x4 with the 4.3L. It was junk. At about 30,000 miles it blew the engine so bad that some of the rods came through the hood. It took 6 months, a lawyer, and many phone calls and letters to get it fixed. All this time I was on my own for a vehicle to drive and still had to make the payments on it.

Less than 4,000 miles later it locked up the transfer case while I was going about 40 mph. The drive shaft snapped and dug into the asphalt and nearly took the rear end off the leaf springs. Once again it took 6 months, a lawyer, and the same run around to get it fixed.

At about 500 miles prior to the 36,000 mile warranty running out I took it into the dealer and had them go over it. They found many problems including a leaking master cylinder, a bad cad converter, and a cracked exhaust manifold. I believe the manifold was screwed up when the drive shaft snapped because it ripped the exhaust out from under it.

I traded it on a Toyota 4 cylinder 4x4 truck that would out work the Blazer any day of the week. Especially the year it sat during my 3 years of proud ownership. I drove the Toy for 160,000 miles with not one problem other than a bad plug wire and a replacement of a $20 slave cylinder on the tranny. It only had 3 sets of tires and 2 sets of brakes. It did rust out and I traded it on a Civic that I drove for 2 years with no problems at all. I then started buying Ford Trucks which I have now owned 8 since 1997 with nearly no problems other than a power window, a bad dash cluster, and a few recalls.

I broke down in 2004 and gave GM another try and bought the great Dmax everyone brags about. It was a SRW 3500 4x4 and I got it 2 months after buying a 2004 F-250 with the dreaded 6.0L Powerstroke. The Ford I still own with zero problems. It has not been in the shop 1 time. It has been great even though I chipped it, changed the intake, and basically run the heck out of it. The Dmax on the other hand was plagued with electrical problems form day one. It also had paint peeling that was resprayed by the dealer but the big problem was the Glow Plugs and Injectors. This truck lasted me only 9 months and I traded it for another Ford 6.0L Powerstroke that I still have. It is the truck that had the bad dash cluster. It was frustrating but the dealer took great care of me and loaned me a new dually while my truck was in the shop for 4 days.

It all comes down to luck I guess. I have had bad luck with GM products and especially the dealers while I have had good luck with other makes. I did own one Dodge for 2 years and it had its share of problems but they fixed it even out of warranty and always gave me a loaner better than what I had. I really like the dealer but just could not trust the Dodge. I was afraid to take a 1 year old $35,000 vehicle more than 50 miles from home.

Chris

 

[gemini5362]

I will say that I have been less than satisfied with foreign dealer's service department. I feel they take advantage of women. My sister went in for an oil change and the next thing I knew she spent 30 bucks to get nitrogen in her tires.

The legacy cost that the "Big" 3 has in the pensions are huge. If any go under, I'm sure the cost to the government to "assume" those pension will cost well more than 15 billion dollars. We will have the exact same issues in the public sector, it seems like most cities and public agencies haven't fully funded their pensions. The mathematics behind social security no longer work. The cold and very hard truth is that each one of us cannot depend on the company, the agency or the government. Things happen, companies close, unions lose pensions in investments and government lies.

Actually if you look at government agencies the Postal Service has fully funded their retirement system and they do it all with income from the services they supply they get no public money from the government