newbie questions MF135 ad152

[jaf302]

Just found this site and thought maybe someone can help. Have a MF135 with an ad152 perkins. Bought it as a basket case, engine out and all apart.Have experience rebuilding before this project. Now the problem,engine has new crank, all bearing clearances checked. New oil pump. oil pressure gauge very erratic when running.removed oil pan and riged up pressureoil feed to engine. No big leaks untill I turned the engine with a wrench. Large leak in front cover. Removed cover, leak occurs when idler gear lube hole lines up with hole on the boss the gear rides on. No serial number on block,nadda,zip. was ther a change up in the blocks,hub and gear? or is a restrictor plug missing? (whew) sorry for the long story but does anybody have any ideas? thanks in advance Paul Jaffer

 

[mattman]

Have you got any pictures?? Is the hole threaded like there could have been a restrictor at one time. Have you looked at a parts diagram of the engine to see what if any parts are missing??

 

[jaf302]

Thanks Mattman, No pictures, and no parts books for the engine. I believe the block or short block was changed before I got the tractor because of the missing serial number on the engine. Tractor is in storage right now and all together. I wonder if there was a changeup inthe front of the block in later years. My tractor is very early, I forgert the year right now,but it is the firsr or second year they made them. Does anybody know where I can call to get a good breakdown of the engine thru the years? Does anybody here have any info on the differences thru the years on this engine? Thanks Paul Jaffer

 

[flusher]

Just found this site and thought maybe someone can help. Have a MF135 with an ad152 perkins. Bought it as a basket case, engine out and all apart.Have experience rebuilding before this project. Now the problem,engine has new crank, all bearing clearances checked. New oil pump. oil pressure gauge very erratic when running.removed oil pan and riged up pressureoil feed to engine. No big leaks untill I turned the engine with a wrench. Large leak in front cover. Removed cover, leak occurs when idler gear lube hole lines up with hole on the boss the gear rides on. No serial number on block,nadda,zip. was ther a change up in the blocks,hub and gear? or is a restrictor plug missing? (whew) sorry for the long story but does anybody have any ideas? thanks in advance Paul Jaffer

I have a 1964 MF-135 diesel that I bought in Jul06 and have been pecking away at a refurbishment ever since. It's a standard 135 set up to squat low for mowing and discing work in the olive orchards around here.

I checked my info that I got from Big Dean Austin, an expert on MF tractors of that vintage. Unfortunately his AOL website is gone and Dean isn't in the best of health.

However, I do have Big Dean's servicing CD. Here's what he says about leaks in the front of the engine.

Don't know if this will help. Let me know if you need more info and I'll try to dig some up.

My 135 has an oil leak somewhere in the front of the engine. I guess I'll have to drop the oil pan to troubleshoot the problem. Not looking forward to that job since that "pan" is a steel casting that weighs a ton.

 

[banjodunn]

Hey jaf if you have got a bit of time up your sleeve i can ask my boss when he gets back to work next week (he gets to go on holidays) he started his apprenticeship on te20 and has worked on massey ever since so he is pretty knowledgable on these old bangers

 

[Soundguy]

can't healp with the leak.. bt ont he eratic gauge.. could be a cheap non compensated gauge.. a restrictor will help that..

soundguy

 

[jaf302]

Soundguy,Thanks but the gauge is showing the problem, every time the hole in the idler gear lines up with the hole in the hub that it rides on the oil pressure drops off to almost nothing. As soon as they don't line up oil pressure is normal. Flusher, VERY nice job on the old girl. I guess what I need is someone with a set of Perkins parts books with the different years to see if there is some mis-matched parts on the front of this engine. thanks Paul

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Soundguy,Thanks but the gauge is showing the problem, every time the hole in the idler gear lines up with the hole in the hub that it rides on the oil pressure drops off to almost nothing. As soon as they don't line up oil pressure is normal. Flusher, VERY nice job on the old girl. I guess what I need is someone with a set of Perkins parts books with the different years to see if there is some mis-matched parts on the front of this engine. thanks Paul

I have all sorts of Perkins manuals up to and including 1984 serial #'s. Not sure if I can help, but willing to try. The Perkins AD3-152 is almost a family member with me! Had this'n since new in '71!

 

[jaf302]

Finaly got a little time before work to catch up here. Farmwithjunk, if you have part books for the different years I need to see if there is different part numbers for different years when it comes to the gear train and idler hub.My best guess is that a replacement short block was fitted(or empty block) before I got this tractor. Then they used the orignial gear train and that is when the problem started. When I got the tractor the rod bearings were wiped out and the crankshaft was .070 thousands out of round. One new rod and a new crank, pistons and sleeves and valve job later and here I am Thanks Paul

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Finaly got a little time before work to catch up here. Farmwithjunk, if you have part books for the different years I need to see if there is different part numbers for different years when it comes to the gear train and idler hub.My best guess is that a replacement short block was fitted(or empty block) before I got this tractor. Then they used the orignial gear train and that is when the problem started. When I got the tractor the rod bearings were wiped out and the crankshaft was .070 thousands out of round. One new rod and a new crank, pistons and sleeves and valve job later and here I am Thanks Paul

I'll spend a few minutes going through the parts book later on today and get back with you on what I find.

 

[flusher]

Soundguy,Thanks but the gauge is showing the problem, every time the hole in the idler gear lines up with the hole in the hub that it rides on the oil pressure drops off to almost nothing. As soon as they don't line up oil pressure is normal. Flusher, VERY nice job on the old girl. I guess what I need is someone with a set of Perkins parts books with the different years to see if there is some mis-matched parts on the front of this engine. thanks Paul

Thanks.
Here's more timing gear info for the MF-135 AD152 engine. The parts list shows some of the changes MF made during the production run. Don't know if this helps.

 

[banjodunn]

Hi jaf haven't spoken to the boss yet but have been looking in old parts and service manuals and cant find a change in stub, gear or bush but have also been thinking some one hasen't drilled out the bush and gear maybe allowing too much oil flow but have also been thinking maybe it is your gauge due to that when the engine is running the time that the hole lines up would not be long enough to make the gauge jump of course you are getting a big leak winding it over by hand because you are not as quick as the engine running, i.e. with the engine at idle 750/800 rpm this hole is lining up 375/400 times a minute is your gauge jumping this quick ? If not check your pickup tube is not cracked or warped where it goes onto the oil pump maybe you are getting cavitation causing the problem best way to chack with engine running is to put a fitting into oil gallery and return it back to the oil filler hole start the engine and check for constant stream of oil ( best done with two people 1 to hold hose 1 to operate starter and stopper) Just a bit of food for thought

 

[flusher]

Hi jaf haven't spoken to the boss yet but have been looking in old parts and service manuals and cant find a change in stub, gear or bush but have also been thinking some one hasen't drilled out the bush and gear maybe allowing too much oil flow but have also been thinking maybe it is your gauge due to that when the engine is running the time that the hole lines up would not be long enough to make the gauge jump of course you are getting a big leak winding it over by hand because you are not as quick as the engine running, i.e. with the engine at idle 750/800 rpm this hole is lining up 375/400 times a minute is your gauge jumping this quick ? If not check your pickup tube is not cracked or warped where it goes onto the oil pump maybe you are getting cavitation causing the problem best way to chack with engine running is to put a fitting into oil gallery and return it back to the oil filler hole start the engine and check for constant stream of oil ( best done with two people 1 to hold hose 1 to operate starter and stopper) Just a bit of food for thought

A while ago the oil pressure on my 1964 MF-135 diesel dropped from about 30 psi at idle to around 10 psi. To eliminate the oil pressure gauge from suspicion, I bought a $25 test gauge that came with flex pressure hose and attached it directly to the hole on the engine block. Same result. So I added a pint of automatic transmission fluid to the oil, ran the engine for several minutes, drained the oil, repeated this process again, refilled with good oil. Problem solved.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm following this thread with interest. Thinking way outta the box here and making a WAG.. is there possibly an oil slinger ( diverter) that has disintegrated that might used to have redirected some of that flow.. I know some engines use them.. like on the camsshaft on a flatty ford N.. etc. again.. wag...

soundguy

 

[jaf302]

Hi Guys, Been reading all the replys and thanks for the tips. Allready installed a new oil pump and pickup. Did the oil line off the engine with it running and watched it start and stop flowing. the problem is so pronounced that I don't get oil to the top of the engine. I took a reclaim refridgerant tank and filled it with oil and pressure fed it to the engine both running and stopped. Then I get oil to the top of the engine. Does anybody have the block parts list? Maybe a plug missing? It reminds me of a Detroit Deisel with the plugs missing from the crankshaft. Thanks for the help guys, Paul

 

[WilliamBos]

Soundguy's question reminded me of something on our A.3152. Not sure if the AD3.152 has the same line or not, but it is worth a look. You will need to pull the valve cover to check. (Chris, I am still looking for the block/crank pics for you.)




As the pic shows, the original line rattled from the vibration and broke off neat the rockershaft. And when we ordered the new one, for whatever reason, they sent a short one, fixed that tho'

I am not sure how much that would affect oil pressure, since we bought the Perky ( if you post on yesterdays tractors, MF section -JackNB was nice enough to sell us some of his inventory. ) But for the cost of a gasket, it could be worth a look.

Keep us posted.

I'm following this thread with interest. Thinking way outta the box here and making a WAG.. is there possibly an oil slinger ( diverter) that has disintegrated that might used to have redirected some of that flow.. I know some engines use them.. like on the camsshaft on a flatty ford N.. etc. again.. wag...

soundguy

Hi Guys, Been reading all the replys and thanks for the tips. Allready installed a new oil pump and pickup. Did the oil line off the engine with it running and watched it start and stop flowing. the problem is so pronounced that I don't get oil to the top of the engine. I took a reclaim refridgerant tank and filled it with oil and pressure fed it to the engine both running and stopped. Then I get oil to the top of the engine. Does anybody have the block parts list? Maybe a plug missing? It reminds me of a Detroit Deisel with the plugs missing from the crankshaft. Thanks for the help guys, Paul

 

[flusher]

Hi Guys, Been reading all the replys and thanks for the tips. Allready installed a new oil pump and pickup. Did the oil line off the engine with it running and watched it start and stop flowing. the problem is so pronounced that I don't get oil to the top of the engine. I took a reclaim refridgerant tank and filled it with oil and pressure fed it to the engine both running and stopped. Then I get oil to the top of the engine. Does anybody have the block parts list? Maybe a plug missing? It reminds me of a Detroit Deisel with the plugs missing from the crankshaft. Thanks for the help guys, Paul

Hope this helps.

 

[flusher]

Hope this helps.

QUOTE]


Oops. That was the MF-135 Continential gasser. Here's the MF-135 diesel engine stuff. Sorry about that.

 

[banjodunn]

Hey paul sorry it has taken so long to get back on here i have spoken to my boss about this and he4 seems to think you could have a dodgy oil pump he tells me that there were no changes to the timing gear that could have caused your probs that he knows of he thinks you may find that the relief valve may be sticking in the bore good luck

 

[WilliamBos]

Not sure if the AD had the same pick up tubes as the A, but if it did, you may want to replace them. We had to in the one we rebuilt, and here is what the new style tubes look like.