A plumbing question

dooleysm · Jan 29, 2009

The wife and I have both noticed within the past day or two that the water in our toilet bowls is lower. I actually noticed it once, forgot about it, and then the wife mentioned it to me this morning, asking if I had done something to the toilets to make them use less water (they are the now standard 'low flow' models). I have not noticed the toilets running abnormally long, which is something I am sure I would have heard. Nor have I noticed any other symptoms. They, and all other household plumbing seem to work just fine.

There are 2 things I am thinking may have started this. Last Friday we had some plumbing work done in the basement, roughing in some lines in anticipation of finishing the basement some day. And then Monday evening we had the nasty ice/winter storm blow through. I noticed yesterday when I was outside that it appeared that the vent stack I can see from the ground (there is another higher up that I can't see from ground level) appeared to be covered in ice.

So I'm thinking either the plumber did something that caused this (which I'm doubting, as he's a reputable guy that we've used and known for years) or more likely, the ice covering the vent stack is causing this.

Any ideas on the cause? Should I be concerned? Should I look for other problems elsewhere?

Like I said, other than a lower water level in the toilet bowl, no other symptoms have been observed. I checked the toilet tank this morning and it appeared to function normally and fill to the normal level.

Chuck52 · Jan 29, 2009

Shawn,

I've got one toilet that is immediately down stream from our washing machine. I've noticed that sometimes when the washer is emptying some water is sucked out of that toilet bowl, and I've figured the pipe that vents that part of the sewer lines is partially plugged. I haven't gotten around to running a snake down it, since it's not a real big deal to me, but I'll probably do it next time I need to get up on the roof for something. If your roof is ice covered I'd probably wait for warmer weather to check that pipe...of course with warmer weather the problem may fix itself.

Chuck

RonMar · Jan 29, 2009

Your vent is clogged. As you flush or use a drain, the falling water in the sewer pipes puts a vacume on the system. This vacume is usually filled by air comming in thru the vent. If the vent is clogged, it will draw down the water in the bowls, and in some cases, you will hear a gurgling in other sinks in the system, as air is drawn thru their smaller "P" traps. Things should go back to normal once the vent clears.

dooleysm · Jan 29, 2009

Alright, good to know, thanks guys! Warmer weather forcasted for the weekend, so maybe it'll clear then.

The other thing I noticed on the roof was that one of the whirly birds was stopped, presumably by snow and/or ice. I'm moderately concerned about that leading to some water intrusion, but there's no way I'm going on the roof to deal with it with all the ice and snow up there.

mbohuntr · Jan 29, 2009

agreed, your toilet may even "slurp" when flushed because of the partially clogged vent and suction of the water down the pipe.

ray66v · Jan 29, 2009

Agreed with previous posts.

High winds can also cause some loss of water, due to vacuum created by air moving across the top of the vent stack.

Pirate · Jan 29, 2009

Seems I have a similar problem. Terlet gurgles when flushing. Now for cleaning the vent stack. Can I just take a hose to the roof and run water down that sucker? Seems it should work ok, right?

Inspector507 · Jan 29, 2009

In my previous house, if the water level dropped in the toilet or it gurgled, especially when doing laundry, it was time to have the roots cleaned out of the drain.

RonMar · Jan 29, 2009

Pirate said:
Seems I have a similar problem. Terlet gurgles when flushing. Now for cleaning the vent stack. Can I just take a hose to the roof and run water down that sucker? Seems it should work ok, right?

Garden hose should work. I have some of those hose end expanding plugs(expands from water pressure in the hose) that allow you to seal and pressurize a pipe and that also works well in these situations.

Stimw · Jan 29, 2009

Global Warming! No doubt about it!

studor · Jan 29, 2009

One thing you have to watch if you are on septic is that a clogged vent will hold water in the pipes between the house and the tank which is then prone to freezing. (don't ask me how I know

) Clearing the vent is definitely a good idea and a hose hooked to the hot water tank works well.

JB4310 · Jan 29, 2009

A couple things to think about, first after reading the first line of your first post I also thought it must be the vent. It's just not likely that an ice storm would plug a 4" vent stack, not impossible and probably is the problem but I would think maybe there was something partly blocking the hole first like a bird or bee's nest.

Did the plumber work on sewer/vent pipes? Sometimes they will stuff a rag or towel in an open pipe if it was dripping on him where he was working, not likely he'd forget to take it out but might be worth a call to the plumber.

Don't know how capable you are on a snow/ice covered roof, but it might not be worth taking a chance now, it will melt by itself. You can check it when it's safer to make sure there's nothing else in there. If you want the level in the toilet back to normal just hold the flush handle for a couple of seconds after the initial flush, this will keep water flowing into the bowl.

JB.

dooleysm · Jan 30, 2009

The plumber did not work on the sewer or vent pipes, just supply lines.

I don't think the vent stack is 4". It seems like it's smaller, like maybe 2", but I'm not sure. If 4" vent stack is code, then I'm sure that's what it is, but from memory it doesn't seem like a 4" pipe coming out of the roof. It was obvious from the ground that there was a plug of ice/snow on top of the pipe.

In any case, it's supposed to be 36 and sunny tomorrow and 43 and rainy on Sunday, so I'm sure that'll thaw things out up there. I'll try to make a point to get up there when conditions are safe to check out the stack for partial obstructions.

Bedlam · Jan 30, 2009

I Used all 4 inch PVC throughout the house for sewer , because it was available for a good price(free to me). But i reduced to 3 inch on the vent. When cleaning the chimney I notice it is very much iced over but not enough to cause a problem. I would have considered using the 4 inch on the vent too if I were to redo it.

several other properties i deal with have 2 inch vents and they look almost 'plugged' occasionally.Perhaps your was closing in and the ice storm was the last straw it closed just enough.

Ken_CT · Jan 30, 2009

Stimw said:
Global Warming! No doubt about it!

The PC police have banned the use of the term global warming. It is now called Climate Change. Did you notice all the major news networks made this switch? When you say global warming, one can blame someone or something for it, with climate change, there is no one to blame! Political correctness wins again. Will this crap ever end. I think it started with Black Ice. Years ago there was only ice on the road, If you got in an accident it was your fault...driving too fast for conditions. But now with black ice it is not your fault you got in an accident, it's that darn black ice, bad stuff, it's the black ice's fault.
Just my 2 cents.

Chuck52 · Jan 30, 2009

My 50 year old house has much smaller vents....maybe 1.5 inch. I think if I had bigger vents I'd put some kind of venting cap on them, and that might not be a bad idea for the small ones I have, too. A cap would likely prevent most ice plugs, would deter birds, would prevent wind sucking, and if the pipe was as big as 4", might keep alien space ships from entering.

Chuck

JB4310 · Jan 30, 2009

Almost all the homes I work on have 4" main stack vent, they may have other smaller ones down to 2" but all have 4" main. Not usually necessary to cap or screen. For the OP, if his is 2" then I guess that would be easier to stop up with snow and ice.

The older homes, 50+ years old, all have 4" cast iron sewer and stack, I've seen houses that have burned to the ground but still had the stack standing 30 feet in the air by itself!

JB.

dqdave1 · Jan 30, 2009

Houses should have a "main vent" either 3" or 4" and each additional sink/bath has a smaller 2" stack.

CurlyDave · Jan 30, 2009

Chuck52 said:
My 50 year old house has much smaller vents....maybe 1.5 inch. I think if I had bigger vents I'd put some kind of venting cap on them, and that might not be a bad idea for the small ones I have, too. A cap would likely prevent most ice plugs, would deter birds, would prevent wind sucking, and if the pipe was as big as 4", might keep alien space ships from entering.

Chuck

When I rebuilt my house 20 years ago, I noticed that all of the old vents were full of leaves from the trees overhanging the house.

I glued two elbows together to make a "U" and then just slipped this on the top of the vent, so it pointed down instead of up. This is used on a lot of industrial vents to keep water, debris, etc. out of the vent.

Pirate · Feb 7, 2009

Well, I my toilet still gurgles. I poured three five gallon buckets of water down the toilet, no back up at all. Took the hose up on the roof today and ran it into the air vent for about a half hour with no back ups. Looked in the cleanout as the water was running. No backups from septic tank. I'm about out of ideas.