Building a 50' x 25' garage with 2nd floor

[Builder]

If you put a wall that big up by yourself, then you're a better man than me.

I doubt that -- I had two other guys helping me. And, I built it in the vertical position. Braced the corners and two studs, & we lifted the beam into place. Then we added the rest of the studs.

OK, I thought you did it yourself. I have done a few really big framing jobs with no help, but that's tough to do.

 

[EddieWalker]

...When I look at the framing pictures, I see that there is a separate header for each garage door, with maybe a 1 foot gap between headers. Why is it almost always done this way, instead of one long header over all three doors? ...

I'm just going to through out a guess here without anything to support it other then it makes sense to me.

A header supports the load of the structure above it, across the span of the header. The load of the header is supported by the jack studs. In wider spans and for more support, you can double up your jack studs. It looks like Builder did this on his garage doors.

Then the king studs lock the header in place and carry the load from the top plates directly down to the sill plate. You don't need the extra strength from a continuous header, but maybe you do need that strength from the king stud?

I think using a continuous header is like going to 12 inch centers on your studs. Yes, it wll be stronger, but it's not needed and just a waste of material and man hours to add it to your framing.

On the other hand, will a continuous header cause the wall itself to be weaker without any studs from plate to plate along the length of the header?

I've never done three garaged doors like Builder is, but I have done doubles. I've also done tripple windows and used a seperate header one each window. I honestly never thought of running a continuos header across all three windows. I've always passed my framing in inspections this way, so it's not something I ever thought about doing differently.

For really wide headers, I put them in place after the wall is up. I build both sides of the wall and placed the header after the walls are up when I'm ususing a gluelam. If I'm using 2x12's, I'll build the header in place after the walls are up one piece at a time. It's really not so much a problem of weight, but in keeping it together while lifting it by myself.

For gluelam beams, I rent a lift. They run about $40 for half a day, and they are quick and easy to use. I did three in one morning on my own, fastened them in place and had the lift back with time to spare.

Eddie

 

[Builder]

Eddie is right.

The stud pattern is 12" o/c. The thing you have to remember is the beam above the openings has top plates on it. In between the doors, the studs in the little 2' partitions provide more than adequate support for the floor above.

Installing a continuous 35' glue lam is just a struggle and waste of money since all the 2' wall partitions with glue lam in them would just be wasted gluelam.

It's much fatser, easier & cheaper to use 9'-9" pieces in each doorway without sacraficing strength adequate to support the 2nd floor.

You guys make interesting points and it's fun to discuss them.

 

[yooperdave]

A few things to keep in mind:

Lateral loads need to be resolved in addition to all gravity loads. The full height or king stud is necessary to transfer the lateral (wind or seismic) load from the header back into the roof or floor diaphragm. Multiple king studs may be necessary if the lateral loads are large - and/or if the wall is tall.

A continuous beam also realizes stress reversals - tension and compression stresses.
A conventional glue lam beam will only have 50% of the capacity in bending if the compression area is subject to tension. This is not true if the glue lam is fabricated with tension lams on both top and bottom - but this gets expensive.

Other engineered lumber products - LVL, PSL, LSL, are homogenius so there is no top and bottom with respect to installation.

Yooper Dave

 

[Builder]

A few things to keep in mind:

Lateral loads need to be resolved in addition to all gravity loads. The full height or king stud is necessary to transfer the lateral (wind or seismic) load from the header back into the roof or floor diaphragm. Multiple king studs may be necessary if the lateral loads are large - and/or if the wall is tall.

A continuous beam also realizes stress reversals - tension and compression stresses.
A conventional glue lam beam will only have 50% of the capacity in bending if the compression area is subject to tension. This is not true if the glue lam is fabricated with tension lams on both top and bottom - but this gets expensive.

Other engineered lumber products - LVL, PSL, LSL, are homogenius so there is no top and bottom with respect to installation.

Yooper Dave

Most of that is out of my area of expertise. I am a builder, not an engineer. I am a trained expert at assembling what the "experts" draw on paper.

Some of the stuff I see is deficient, even in my own untrained eyes, but most of the time I am at the mercy of what I'm instructed to build.

The thing that always hacks me off is when engineers & architects will not return calls and you have your whole crew standing around waiting for an answer.

 

[CurlyDave]

A few things to keep in mind:

Lateral loads need to be resolved in addition to all gravity loads. The full height or king stud is necessary to transfer the lateral (wind or seismic) load from the header back into the roof or floor diaphragm. Multiple king studs may be necessary if the lateral loads are large - and/or if the wall is tall...

Yooper Dave

I had wondered if that might be the answer to why it is done with discontinuous headers.

The wall I actually built had T1-11 on the outside, and I put a 5/8" plywood shear layer on the inside. I felt these handled the lateral loads well enough, but I didn't actually do any calculations on it.

 

[yooperdave]

To Builder:

I could not agree more with you.

To make matters worse, some builders who get sick of waiting for an answer sometimes directs the crew only to find out later that the A/E did not agree with you - requiring a tear down and rebuild at your expense.

Complete construction documents will help with the bidding, building, and the time frame (schedule) with fewer call backs.

I think it is important to have the A/E build something sometime so they can appreciate how their documents affect others.

Yooper Dave

 

[Builder]

To Builder:

I could not agree more with you.

To make matters worse, some builders who get sick of waiting for an answer sometimes directs the crew only to find out later that the A/E did not agree with you - requiring a tear down and rebuild at your expense.

Complete construction documents will help with the bidding, building, and the time frame (schedule) with fewer call backs.

I think it is important to have the A/E build something sometime so they can appreciate how their documents affect others.

Yooper Dave

If we were at the same location, I'd be buying you a beer right now.

You don't know how many sets of plans I've built off of that were lacking critical "sections" of information.

You also don't know how many times we say "every architect should be required to spend 2 years on the jobsite doing masonry & framing work" to learn what we go through every day!!

Nice to know you understand!!!

 

[yooperdave]

I have had many battles with many Architects over the years.

My philosophy was to do the job right the first time. Put in the extra effort up front, and you will save lots of resources later trying to fix an assumption or similar. The project is a team effort. When the project is sucessful, then everybody is sucessful. The same holds true going the other way...

Many Architects think by putting out partially complete documents, that they are saving money. I could not disagree more.

I no longer work for Architects, and am a happier man for it.

Regards,

Yooper Dave

 

[EddieWalker]

...I no longer work for Architects, and am a happier man for it.

Regards,

Yooper Dave

Well said!!!

Eddie