Backhoe

[vic654]

I am looking to get a backhoe for my 3720 cab.I have been looking at the jd 375 and the woods bh80-x.I am looking for some thoughts on these or any other brand i should be looking at.

I am also wondering what people thought about the three point hitch or the 4 point subframe units which would be better for my tractor.The woods has the option of having its own pump dont know if i need that or if tractor fluid capacity is enough without it.

 

[wallace]

Wood lists a hydraulic hose kit for it, unless you are running the backhoe all day long your tractor hydraulics will handle it no problem.
I would never hang a 3 point on a tractor if there is a sub frame available.
Most all manufactures will void the warranty if there is a 3 pt backhoe hung on their machine.
Besides in my opinion Woods has one of the best mounting systems out there.
Don't know what you are getting for prices on the Deere hoes but I can sell you a new Woods JD green 80X with 4 point mount, hydraulic hose kit, and 18" bucket for $6,895.00

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

The way the deere hoe's fit and attach to the tractor is way better than any other manufacture. That said the woods has a real nice thumb option and I believe it specs out a little better than the deere. It also has a speed control valve which is a really nice feature when working in close to delicate objects. I ended up buy a 448 but really had looked close on the woods unit. I doubt you'll be disappointed either way.

Matt

 

[wallace]

The way the deere hoe's fit and attach to the tractor is way better than any other manufacture. That said the woods has a real nice thumb option and I believe it specs out a little better than the deere. It also has a speed control valve which is a really nice feature when working in close to delicate objects. I ended up buy a 448 but really had looked close on the woods unit. I doubt you'll be disappointed either way.

Matt

Can you leave your 3 pt arms on with the Deere's backhoe?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

...I can sell you a new Woods JD green 80X with 4 point mount, hydraulic hose kit, and 18" bucket for $6,895.00

Thats a Good price...
My question is why a hoe? IMO it used to be backhoes were the way to go when they were cheaper then excavators, but now that you can easily find nice gently used hoes that will dig 3x deeper, faster & better then any 3pt Backhoe for 10k I fail to see why anybody would want a 3pt Backhoe. One of them deals where I think the MFG's have priced themselves out of the market.

When I first got my 3520 Cab, I shopped around a bit...just to get an idea..window shopping more then anything at the time, but when the time DOES come, its gonna be a Mini-Ex for sure
Thats just my thought, I have a very understanding wife

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

before i would ever spend the money on a BH of any brand, especially new, i'd make FOR SURE that it can do two motions at once.......

and, i wouldn't go for anything than a frame mount......they are heavy and hard on your tractor unless they are rigid....

i just live with mine, because it came with the tractor....and it does a good job, especially for a home owner....

 

[AKfish]

Thats a Good price...
My question is why a hoe? IMO it used to be backhoes were the way to go when they were cheaper then excavators, but now that you can easily find nice gently used hoes that will dig 3x deeper, faster & better then any 3pt Backhoe for 10k I fail to see why anybody would want a 3pt Backhoe. One of them deals where I think the MFG's have priced themselves out of the market.

Definitely a good point! The main consideration that I would have with this decision is: do I want another machine that I'm gonna have to feed and buy clothes for??

Owning a backhoe attachment is alot less maintenance overhead than owning another machine. And the part's/repairs for a excavator (mini or otherwise) is in another dimension from a CUT.

AKfish

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

No Rick the arms need to come off. That's what takes the most time. But the rockshaft mounting system is really nice. The Woods is a really nice unit but sticks out farther than the deere. The deere hoe's really become a solid part of the machine.

Matt

 

[docjupa24]

i see that you have a cab, i think some of the JD hoes won't work with a cab tractor, i could be wrong but when i was checking for 3520 i believe i read this, someone please correct me if im wrong

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Definitely a good point! The main consideration that I would have with this decision is: do I want another machine that I'm gonna have to feed and buy clothes for??

True, BUT....You have the convenience of having your tractor available to do things like backfill & finish work...its not exactly a 1 minute job to change from the Hoe to a Box Blade, York Rake, etc.. Plus you can use the tractor to haul supplies, etc.. Of course if you have kids (Free labor) it puts you at 2 machines running and projects will go quick!

Owning a backhoe attachment is alot less maintenance overhead than owning another machine. And the part's/repairs for a excavator (mini or otherwise) is in another dimension from a CUT.

True in the grand scale of things, but the cost of oil changes on another machine to me for the increased capacity & usefulness of the mini-ex makes it a wash either way for me. To me its really about the money vs. what your getting... The Tractor hoe would be more attractive to me if I could get one for 5k tops...Thats a dream at best...

I think that might depend on the brand etc... One of my Dad's friends bought an Komatsu Mini-Ex...imported from the Japan/China/Wherever over there...its not gray market because he gets all parts for it at the Komatsu dealer and the parts are relatively the same as what we pay for JD Parts, or any other OEM branded parts....

From what I can tell, once the Mini-Ex units get to the 10k range they need to be beat to heck and have a bazillion hours before they go much lower. 10-14k gets you a Major Brand refurbished, imported, ready to work machine. Use it for your major projects, 2-3 years later, sell it for a few bucks less.
Hoe's on the tractor seem to sell with the tractor when the tractor hits the road, so you end up giving it away...

 

[gogreen]

I have been kicking this around for 2 months now, I also want a backhoe for my 3520 cab. The deere 375 is just too expensive, new from dealer. The woods 80x is stronger and has a little more reach. There was a used 375 on MachineFinder.com for $6500, but it was too far from me to make it feasible. The local woods dealer priced me a new 80x with 4 point subframe and 18" bucket for $6680. I would have to add the hose kit to it for about another $300. He has two in stock at that price. One problem, it's ORANGE. But, probably going to end up with it. Spring is getting closer and I really could use it. Too costly to keep renting a mini-ex with travel distance picking it up and returning it, same day. My thinking is around here locally, I could sell an orange one, easier than green, as there are a lot of Kubotas up and down the Valley.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

i really do like my BH BUT:

like you said, i basically got it for free when i bought my tractor......or for very little if you count my tractor, loader, accessories, and a few implements..

i don't like the speed, power or not being able to do two motions at once- at least smoothly.....maybe it's just me....

a buddy of mine has 3 different sized excavators, large cat BH, ditch witches, etc.....he tried to tell me that you'd be better off with a terramite or a mini excavator......i thought he was crazy........those mini's will probably out work a tractor hoe (unhooking, moving, power, speed, etc) at least 3-1........

so, for the 7500 that i was quoted when looking at new BH, there is absolutely no way!! like i said, i wouldn't sell my hoe attachment for 5000, i really do love having it........but, it basically came with the tractor and i was wanting one when i was shopping the used market.....

there have been some good deals on mini's on craigslist, lately.....i'm a big advocate, too, about not having to maintain another pc. of high dollar equipment but if you're like me, you'd do your homework, add up everything a used mini would need and pad yourself some major repairs in the cost of the machine.........then, i'd pick it apart fixing all the little stuff the other people let go.......then when i'd sell it, i'd probably get more than i gave for it....

but that's how usually do all things; tractors, zero turns, mowers, chainsaws, atvs, etc.....

 

[AKfish]

You have the convenience of having your tractor available to do things like backfill & finish work.. Plus you can use the tractor to haul supplies, etc..

I think that might depend on the brand etc... and the parts are relatively the same as what we pay for JD Parts, or any other OEM branded parts....

From what I can tell, once the Mini-Ex units get to the 10k range they need to be beat to heck and have a bazillion hours before they go much lower. 10-14k gets you a Major Brand refurbished, imported, ready to work machine. Use it for your major projects, 2-3 years later, sell it for a few bucks less.
Hoe's on the tractor seem to sell with the tractor when the tractor hits the road, so you end up giving it away...

I agree with most of what you are saying... the convenience and efficiency of multiple machines, etc. However, that makes the most sense if you have many projects or enough acreage or if you've got commercial uses. For a small landowner, homeowner with 1-10 acres; or less - the justification of a mini-ex or even 2 tractors is a difficult rationalization - unless money or actual need is not that important.

I think the market for excavators is more dependent upon the size of the machine. Not just a range of dollar values that determines either resale or value retention. The latest auction figures for construction equip have folk's buying for $0.30 - 0.40 on the dollar from prices just 2 years ago. Now's a good time to buy -- but there's no guarantee that you're gonna be able to recoup your investment any time soon.

A set of new rubber tracks or steel or rubber on steel cost considerably more than a new set of R4's for a CUT. And hyd cylinders (greater operating pressures, volume) for a similar Hp excavator vs a CUT FEL or hoe is more $$. If you lunch a hyd pump on an excavator - what's gonna cost more - a pump for your 3520 (~40hp) or a pump on a 40hp excavator? (I'll take bets...) And the hydraulic drive motors on an excavator do not last as long as the diesel engine in a CUT. Undercarriage rebuilds can happen in a couple thousand hours. Most tractor engines can reliably operate for more than 5K hours.

Long-short: ownership of an excavator or a dozer (i.e. - track machine) based upon a cost per hour of operation is higher than an equivalent Hp CUT.

I agree that you never get the full value of a backhoe when you sell a CUT. But, I do believe that having a backhoe for your tractor enhances potential buyer interest. And, based upon the experience of selling my TLB - I got at least 75% of the value of a new hoe with the "package sale". As well, depending upon the backhoe model; if you're planning on a new/newer machine - you can always hang it on the back of your next tractor.

AKfish

 

[two_bit_score]

Thats a Good price...
My question is why a hoe? IMO it used to be backhoes were the way to go when they were cheaper then excavators, but now that you can easily find nice gently used hoes that will dig 3x deeper, faster & better then any 3pt Backhoe for 10k I fail to see why anybody would want a 3pt Backhoe. One of them deals where I think the MFG's have priced themselves out of the market.

When I first got my 3520 Cab, I shopped around a bit...just to get an idea..window shopping more then anything at the time, but when the time DOES come, its gonna be a Mini-Ex for sure
Thats just my thought, I have a very understanding wife

I think you're right. I have a JD 110 and I love it. It is what I need at this time. But, if I already had a tractor I wouldn't be looking to add a BH to it. I'd look for a good used mini-excavator.

 

[jenkinsph]

I wonder why more people don't choose a 110 instead of the tractors to start with. When you add a three point top and tilt hitch it is versalile.
I might add these units are available with and without the hoe too.

Bet if they were green and yellow they would sell more.

Steve

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I agree with most of what you are saying... the convenience and efficiency of multiple machines, etc. However, that makes the most sense if you have many projects or enough acreage or if you've got commercial uses. For a small landowner, homeowner with 1-10 acres; or less - the justification of a mini-ex or even 2 tractors is a difficult rationalization - unless money or actual need is not that important.

AKFish, I can see your point and agree with it. I guess what it boils down to is I answer posts in the "What would I Do" mentality... I could be classified as the Small Landowner...but at the same time I got 2 tractors thus far and another one could come sooner rather then later. We got 2.1 acres and I got a 3520 Cab to play in the dirt with and a F935 Front Mount mower w/72" deck to cut grass. Keep in mind that less then a third of my land is currently grass...the rest is Forest. Seriously, it takes me 18 minutes to cut the grass, 25 minutes if I have to trim cut with the weedwacker.
Where I come from...farming valley....everybody has at least 2 tractors... one to cut grass with and one to play in the dirt.

A set of new rubber tracks or steel or rubber on steel cost considerably more than a new set of R4's for a CUT. And hyd cylinders (greater operating pressures, volume) for a similar Hp excavator vs a CUT FEL or hoe is more $$. If you lunch a hyd pump on an excavator - what's gonna cost more - a pump for your 3520 (~40hp) or a pump on a 40hp excavator? (I'll take bets...) And the hydraulic drive motors on an excavator do not last as long as the diesel engine in a CUT. Undercarriage rebuilds can happen in a couple thousand hours. Most tractor engines can reliably operate for more than 5K hours.

My dad is currently shopping for a set of R4's for his Kubota and lets just say the tire shops arent exactly giving them away..seriously at this point its almost cheaper to get the whole setup rims & tires from the Kubota dealer. I see replacement rubber tracks online in the 1,500-2,500 ballpark per pair...free shipping. Thus far, we cant find a set of R4's for that price.

Long-short: ownership of an excavator or a dozer (i.e. - track machine) based upon a cost per hour of operation is higher than an equivalent Hp CUT.

I totally agree with that statement, but when you factor in the fact that in 1 hour of digging with the Mini-Ex you'll dig 3x more then the equivalent CUT...Financially, IMO its a wash...maybe even cheaper with the MiniEx

I wonder why more people don't choose a 110 instead of the tractors to start with. When you add a three point top and tilt hitch it is versalile.
I might add these units are available with and without the hoe too.

I can tell you why I didnt buy one...Dealer had a demo unit on the lot, SMOKIN good price, they tried to talk me into it, but a few things turned me off....No Factory Cab, Color is wrong, and the BIGGEST thing was the operator station....IMO the dash panels/operator stations on a Craftsman riding mower is 50x better then the 110's....

I would have gladly bought a 110 if it were Green & Yellow, and had the same cab & interior as my 3520. I really liked the specs & everything about the 110 for my use. if they released the "Perfect 110" tomorrow, I'd head down to my dealer to see what I do on a trade in...

 

[jenkinsph]

Dave,
I agree the dash appearance is not as good on the 110 as the 3x20 series. I think the difference is that while operating the 110 you need different controls close at hand depending on seat position. There are several add things that you need for operating skidsteer or 4in1 buckets or all hydraulic box blades while having the seat in the forward position, but when you flip the seat over you still need to see the dash and now need access to reposition switches and throttle ect.

The cab isn't doing you much good if you are not in it while operating the hoe. The dash isn't very convienient nor is the throttle when you are on an attachment hoe either. I agree that Deere needs a cab for the 110 but I am satisfied with the Laurin cab. Forecast today in New Mexico is for snow but I can still dig in comfort of the heated cab.

The 110 isn't as modern and automotive in appearance as the new cab tractors but still has 90% of the dash features they are just placed differently.

I like the 4520 cab tractors though and am fixing to get me one of those too.



Steve

 

[AKfish]

Dave;
Everytime I hook up my tiller, backblade, fert spreader, roller/packer, PHD to the 110 - the tractor IS yellow and GREEN!

Yep... no cab really sucks! Deere would cut Kubota off at the knees if they'd put a cab on the 110!

Really would like cruise control, too. Using the tiller, and tedding, mowing, etc. would be a sweet feature.

But.... my FEL doesn't have all those pesky "quirks" that the QA FEL's on the 3000 and 4000 series!!

AKfish

 

[skidoo]

True, BUT....You have the convenience of having your tractor available to do things like backfill & finish work...its not exactly a 1 minute job to change from the Hoe to a Box Blade, York Rake, etc.. Plus you can use the tractor to haul supplies, etc.. Of course if you have kids (Free labor) it puts you at 2 machines running and projects will go quick!

Yea. I started looking for a BH for my 2520, or trading for another model with one. But I decided to keep it and get a 110 too. Recently, I cut down a 32" fir next to my house. The clean up was a lot of work but was much less than it could have been. We put my son on the 2520 where we loaded the firewood size branches and logs into the bucket, while we piled the smallest branches onto the fork lift attachment of the 110. This allowed me to move 3 to 4 times (more than the 2520 bucket) as much bulk with the forklift down to the burn pile, while at the same time, my son was able to move the firewood logs over to the firewood pile.

With multiple tractors, you increase the number of implements immediately available for use and one tractor may be significantly more capable than the other for certain jobs.

 

[rcrcomputing]

No Rick the arms need to come off. That's what takes the most time. But the rockshaft mounting system is really nice. The Woods is a really nice unit but sticks out farther than the deere. The deere hoe's really become a solid part of the machine.

Matt

Hmm, wonder if that means you could handle the controls from the tractor seat? I have long arms and legs is the ONLY reason I can do that on my kioti.