Beefing up half-ton for gooseneck

[Renze]

Gross weight for this trailer is 5000lbs. Adding in two horses (2400lbs combined), two foals, passengers and cargo keeps me under 10,000lbs.

10.000 lbs is 4500 kg... its regularly towed in Europe with a little 3 liter van... how can it be a problem for a V8 truck ?

Speaking for Europe, the 3.5 ton GVW version is a 4 ton with cheaper springs and sway bar. I suppose in America most half tons are a 3/4 ton with the weaker (cheaper) suspension to give a smoother ride when not loaded.

The dodge site says 1850 payload plus 9100 tow rating.. this gives 10950 pounds maximum.
the 10.000 pounds you mention is also a max. estimation i guess. I think in 95% of the time you're within your limits. In Europe you can get away with a 5% overload before you're fined.

About the frame, the frame will suffer less from a gooseneck hitch a little ahead of the rear axle, than from a bumper hitch at the back.

If you buy that old 1 ton, you have one extra vehicle to park, service, require annual inspections, taxes, etcetera.

 

[Builder]

I think you're right builder that we are reaching a consensus about the abilities of a half ton truck.

By noting "that trailer looks heavy" I was just trying to say that the pictured trailer does not obviously fall within the light weight category. I would not assume that it is light as I would with an empty single axle utility trailer. Trying to encourage the man to weigh that thing to be sure.

I don't care what tires it has so long as they are rated for the load. Even a load range C tire will have a sidewall stamped weight rating that must be respected and I have never seen a OEM tire that didn't exceed the axle rating of a pickup, seen it on a cheap trailer though.

My diesel powerstroke makes big time torque but not power. Most any modern half ton truck makes more power than my manly 444ci diesel that makes only 235 HP. None of that matters though so long as all ratings are respected.

But we all know torque moves loads.

Do you think a 1/2 ton pickup with 300HP will pull a load better than my 250HP DTA466?
Ummm, no.

Some of these modern half tons are coming out with better than 10,000# tow ratings which baffles me but the rating is what it is.

Tow ratings are different than GVWR's. Most older 1-tons have a tow rating in excess of 10K lbs.

 

[Diamondpilot]

10.000 lbs is 4500 kg... its regularly towed in Europe with a little 3 liter van... how can it be a problem for a V8 truck ?

Speaking for Europe, the 3.5 ton GVW version is a 4 ton with cheaper springs and sway bar. I suppose in America most half tons are a 3/4 ton with the weaker (cheaper) suspension to give a smoother ride when not loaded.

The dodge site says 1850 payload plus 9100 tow rating.. this gives 10950 pounds maximum.
the 10.000 pounds you mention is also a max. estimation i guess. I think in 95% of the time you're within your limits. In Europe you can get away with a 5% overload before you're fined.

About the frame, the frame will suffer less from a gooseneck hitch a little ahead of the rear axle, than from a bumper hitch at the back.

If you buy that old 1 ton, you have one extra vehicle to park, service, require annual inspections, taxes, etcetera.

That is Europe. 1/2 ton trucks are completely different platforms from 3/4 and 1 tons.

As for the payload of 1,850# and the tow rating of 9,100# max that is not going to happen at the same time. You must obey the max GCWR. Example my new truck has a 15,000# GCWR and something like 1,900# payload but there is no way you can put a 5,500# truck and 1,900# of payload and then still have the 9,500# tow rating all at the same time, I would be at 16,900# or 1,900# in excess of the max GCWR. So as you can see its either max payload, max tow, or some of each.

Chris

 

[Brahmus]

Because even an "old" 1-ton will have a GVWR typically 9,900-11,000 lbs or more. No 1/2 ton has that rating.

Everyone agreed he should weight the thing.

Because a 1-ton will also have a higher GCWR typically 20,000lbs or more. No 1/2 ton has that rating.

Again, it's been stamped to stay within your limits.

Because a truck is "old" doesn't mean it's "worn". All depends on maintenance.

I agree, I maintain my vehicles, but as you said most people don't.

My IH4800 is 18 years old and better maintained than a lot of 5 yr old trucks I see and is still fully capable of towing like a new one.

I would agree that is the majority.

More power? No 1/2 ton can match an older Powerstroke, GM 454 or 8.1L in torque. Torque moves loads.

Mine can

No 1/2 ton has load range E tires as standard equipment.

Only required if the tonque weight puts that load on the truck, again, stay within the limits.

No 1/2 ton has a GM 14 bolt 1-ton rear or a Dodge dana 70/80 hybrid rear or even a Ford Sterling 10.5" rear.

My Ford 9.75" rear is no issue, I would be worried if he was in a chevy.

Most 1-tons have tranny coolers, most 1/2 tons don't.

We suggested he add one.

Just because a truck is 10 years old doesn't mean it can't be well maintained and fully capable of doing the work it did when new, maybe even more with upgrades.

True, and the same can be said for a new truck, even a 1/2 ton.

Worn parts can be replaced. Door decals with light GVWR's in 1/2 ton pickups can't be replaced.

True, but are you going to spend the time and money going over a "cheap" 1 ton you only use ocassionally? You might, but people forget and oversites happen.

I'll take a 10 yr old 1-ton GMC or Ford or Dodge with a big block V-8 or diesel a 10,000lb GVWR and 20,000lb GCWR with a Dana 80 rear, bigger brakes, more wheel lugs, heavier wheels, dual load range E tires over any of today's 1/2 ton tin can pickups with a "hemi"

You know what you want and can use it. No reason for the OP if he only "needs" it 3 times a year.

Not stirring the pot, only pointing to "the other" side of the story.
We all agree, stay within your limits. If you are over, you are over.

 

[Duffster]

But we all know torque moves loads.

Do you think a 1/2 ton pickup with 300HP will pull a load better than my 250HP DTA466?
Ummm, no.



Tow ratings are different than GVWR's. Most older 1-tons have a tow rating in excess of 10K lbs.

So a pickup isn't capable of pulling a trailer unless it has a diesel or a big block?

 

[Dargo]

I believe this fella put a 5th wheel hitch in his 1/2 ton pickup along with adding aftermarket A/C.

 

[crashz]

I think I've seen some short fifth wheel campers that were around a 6000 lbs GVW that would have easily been able to be towed with a 1/2 ton. just thought I'd add that tidbit of completely useless opinion.

I'd heed the warnings of pushing the towing an payload limits of the truck very carefully. Since I tow and plow snow with my late model 1/2 ton, I know the limits and wish I went with a larger work truck. But I won't bore anyone with that old story.

I think there may be some economic reasons not to work the lease truck. First lets tally up some general costs for upgrades that may need to be done:

$400 - Air bag kit for the rear suspension
$1000 - Name brand Load E tires
$200 - Name brand aux. transmission cooler
$100 - Transmission temp gauge
$500 - Gooseneck hitch
$800 - Performance brakes (slotted rotors and good pads)
$200 - Electric brake controller

$3200 Total

Of which, maybe the brake controller and hitch might be able to be transfered to another truck when the lease has run out. I'm assuming you will not end up buying the truck. I'm also not including any penalty for modifying the bed to accept a frame mounted gooseneck hitch.

So if penalities on the lease or are less that $3200, than I'd consider trading it for a new truck. Or buy an older "work" truck. I just can't see putting money into a lease truck and then giving it back to the dealer.

Good luck!

 

[radioman]

So if penalities on the lease or are less that $3200, than I'd consider trading it for a new truck. Or buy an older "work" truck. I just can't see putting money into a lease truck and then giving it back to the dealer.

Good luck!

I couldn't have said it any better. crashz has nailed this right on the head.

 

[JB4310]

I believe this fella put a 5th wheel hitch in his 1/2 ton pickup along with adding aftermarket A/C.

You've got to be kidding me! looks like the punch line of a Jeff Foxworthy joke

JB.

 

[Builder]

So a pickup isn't capable of pulling a trailer unless it has a diesel or a big block?

When/where did I say THAT?

I said a diesel or a big block in a 1-ton is more capable of pulling a trailer than a small block or non-diesel in a 1/2 ton. Seems pretty simple to understand.