Beefing up half-ton for gooseneck

[garagewizard]

Braking will be fine as long as the trailer brakes are working up to par

Hi, new to tbn for posting although you guys have given me some great ideas, as far as the breaking goes you will be able to stop under "normal situations". try to stay away from steep hills and stop and go traffic as we are all aware of what happens when you heat break pads. I have made the mistake of hauling the pc 35 excavator I had with a 1/2 ton truck (no choice at the time, my 1 ton was in the shop) and although I could stop it on the flats with the aid of trailer brakes, it was miserable to stop after a 10 min ride in traffic. The other factor you may want to think about is the load shift, you can't really put chain binders on a horse like my excavator had so watch the slosh effect. Think ahead and watch ahead, Happy hauling

 

[Bill_C]

Okay, let's get some real numbers here. My 1994 Powerstroke, in a F250 Supercab 4x4, XLT trim. Stock around 215 hp and 450 ft-lbs of torque. The newrst F150 with the 4.4 V8 claims 310 hp (at 5000 rpm) and 365 ft-lbs of torque (at 3500 rpm). More horsepower with the new gasser...but the old Powerstroke stomps it in torque. (And by the way, Builder is right, torque is what tows trailers). Furthermore, the turbo Diesel will make its rated horsepower all the way up to 10,000 feet in altitude. The gasser will be gasping for air at anything over a mile high. And another tidbit: throw a few hundred dollars onto the old Powerstroke for a new downpipe, a new air intake, and a PCM reflash, and it'll be making close to 300 hp and well over 550 ft-lbs of torque.

Fuel mileage? 12 mpg with my truck towing a 25 foot TT (trailer GVW about 7K). With the gasser...hope those fuel tanks are big, you'll be sucking them down fast.

How about curb weight? My truck: about 6300. The heaviest crewcab I saw came in at 5600 empty.

Wheelbase: comparable IF you get the longest F-150. Most of them were 144 inches though, or less, versus my regular bed F250 Supercab at 155 inches.

Payload? Mine's 2880 lbs. Max payload for that particular F150 is 1500 lbs.

Brakes? Mines got heavy duty discs up front, antilock on rear. Though I believe the F150 has disc brakes all the way around, the brakes on the front of the old 3/4 ton are stouter than the front of the F150 (look at the size of the disc as well as the caliper itself).

Rear axle? Mine's got the 10.25 Sterling, which (IIRC) can go up to 6800 GAW with dualies; mine is single and is 6084 GAW. Honestly I don't know the rear axle on the F150 but it appears smaller.

Creature comforts...yep, no doubt the new truck will have built-in GPS and heated leather seats, if you get those options. I will concede the new truck would be more comfortable and quieter...but the old F250 XLT, with velour Captains chairs and power lumbar, is far from a torture chamber!

I have towed my trailer up Monteagle north of Chattanooga and easily exceeded 65mph in 4th gear without any strain up the steepest grade. She almost pulled the grade in 5th. On flatter land, I can set the cruise on 70 in 5th gear and relax. When the wind picks up and a light rain starts to fall, give me the weight and security of the F250 anyday.

 

[gordyy]

depends on the f250
I had a work vehicle an 88 or 89 f250 that was the wimpiest truck you ever saw for a supposed 3/4 ton like I said earlier we put air ride springs in it and it was like night and day However I hate to hear it from the safety crew but probably 9 out of 10 pickups you see go down the road with tool boxes and a load on em are overloaded.
Having spent 30 yrs in the refrigeration heating and plumbing trades id say almost all of the work trucks I have had were driven at the least weekly overloaded.
I challenge a trade worker driving anything less than a 350 or 3500 series vehicle to load it for a good days work one where you are gone from the shop for a day to scale it and tell me its not overloaded!
Now having said that I have never had an accident from overloading a pickup or van or from pulling a trailer with either
make sure your brakes work travell under utilized road ways go under the speed limit
anybody ever haul a uhaul trailer on the highway over 45 thats the speed limit u-haul used to put on them and a rental company can specify a speed limit for their vehicle
ok enough rambling from me just noticed how long this got
I have never damaged a truck being overloaded however I do have an artificail knee (that is hurting like all get out tonight) from an overloaded cart. yes I knew the cart was overloaded was workign for a fortune 100 company and the company vice president was onsite and orderd me to use the overloaded cart.

 

[RobertN]

$1000 - Name brand Load E tires

Careful just tossing E rated tires in the mix. That 1/2 ton rim may not be specced for a high weight application.

 

[RobertN]

What makes everyone think that "old" 1 ton is any better than a "new" 1/2 ton? The half ton does not have any worn parts, has more power, better braking, better handling, many more and better SAFETY FEATURES. All around it's a far suppior truck to a 1 ton even less than a decade old. I'd follow Highbeam's advice.

This is slightly dated, my my '89 F250 4x4 gasser would out haul, out stop my wifes '04 Dodge 1500. My old F250 might not have had the power with the 351 that the new truck do, but everything about it was heavier duty. Full floater in the rear. Beefier frame. It had drums on the back, but the brakes were bigger.

Even comparing my '01 Ram2500 to the '04 was not the same. Discount out my Cummins even. Even with comparable motors, the hauling capability is not near the same. I have had both loaded. Hauling trailers. Not the same. Just not the same.

I've driven a few newer 1/2 tons. Nice ride. Comfy. But not the same as even my old '89.

 

[gordyy]

old pulling power was good
had a 60 or 61 dodge powerwagon origially made for the air force with a slant six a brownlight 3 speed behind the 4 speed
more darned levers on the floor to count as the transfer case had 2 if not 3 levers too
could hook up and haul anything
course you had a hard time driving anywhere an expansion joint on the interstate would put a dent in the roof and a knob on your head
but darned good at making power and sticking it to the road
often wonder what it would do with good radial tires on it as far as straight out traction
it was heavvvvvy and had positrac to boot

 

[Negligence]

Just spoke with the manufacturer of the trailer. He said the trailer should be weighing in no more than 4,000lbs (he believed around 3,700), but obviously it needs to be scaled to be certain. He also said, with springs, my truck will be capable of towing occassionally when not fully-loaded.

Adding SuperSprings will increase my payload to approximately 3,000lbs, so as far as tongue weight goes (estimating up to 25% of total load), I should be OK.

As of right now I've decided to stick with the half-ton for doing this. There is no penalty for adding a gooseneck to the leased truck so long as I weld up the holes when I return the truck. Plus the previous trailer owned towed with a Ram 1500 (extra leaf springs), establishing that it can be done.

I will be adding the springs, heavier tires (I'll speak with someone who can confirm the rim rating as well), and when it's time to re-do brakes I'll consider upgrading if needed.

 

[Dargo]

There is no penalty for adding a gooseneck to the leased truck so long as I weld up the holes when I return the truck.

Who do you have your lease with? According to a Wells Fargo rep, you just bought the truck if you cut the bed and put a gooseneck hitch in. A Chrysler dealer told me that, if you did no damage to the truck mechanically, you would have to buy a new bed for the truck at lease turn in. You may want to verify with your lease company that there is no penalty.

 

[Duffster]

Just spoke with the manufacturer of the trailer. He said the trailer should be weighing in no more than 4,000lbs (he believed around 3,700), but obviously it needs to be scaled to be certain. He also said, with springs, my truck will be capable of towing occassionally when not fully-loaded.

Adding SuperSprings will increase my payload to approximately 3,000lbs, so as far as tongue weight goes (estimating up to 25% of total load), I should be OK.

As of right now I've decided to stick with the half-ton for doing this. There is no penalty for adding a gooseneck to the leased truck so long as I weld up the holes when I return the truck. Plus the previous trailer owned towed with a Ram 1500 (extra leaf springs), establishing that it can be done.

I will be adding the springs, heavier tires (I'll speak with someone who can confirm the rim rating as well), and when it's time to re-do brakes I'll consider upgrading if needed.

Sounds good,

I would reccomend a B&W hitch if you don't have one picked out yet

It would be intersting to hear what the weights are when you get it loaded.

 

[Highbeam]

I think there may be some economic reasons not to work the lease truck. First lets tally up some general costs for upgrades that may need to be done:

$400 - Air bag kit for the rear suspension
$1000 - Name brand Load E tires
$200 - Name brand aux. transmission cooler
$100 - Transmission temp gauge
$500 - Gooseneck hitch
$800 - Performance brakes (slotted rotors and good pads)
$200 - Electric brake controller

$3200 Total
Good luck!

Okay, this right here is misleading.

165$ - Timbren overload springs (superior to air bags) if deemed necessary.
0$ - stock tires on this new truck are adequate for rated GAWR
0$ - trans cooler, it already has the tow package and has one. Can add more later if needed.
100$ - trans temp gauge, Okay this includes install cost and is a great idea.
500$ - hitch, they really cost that much?
0$ - performance brakes. Are you kidding? Stock brakes for rated loads, this is a ricer mod.
200$ - brake controller, yep get a good one. I like the prodigy.

So yeah, it isn't free but to find an equally dependable and capable one ton truck will cost more than 1000$

Oh and to be sure, adding additional suspension parts doen NOT increase allowable payload. It just levels the ride.