TO-20 carburator problem??

[buckeyepost]

I just bought a 1951 TO-20 and am having some trouble with the carb I think. I'm new to tractors and carburators so I'm learning this as I go. I have only beening running it about once a week and when I fire it up it starts right away but if I shut it off while mowing it takes a few more cranks to start it and last time I parked it it wouldn't start at all. After I turn the fuel on to start it I noticed gas dripping out of what appears to be where the choke cable attaches to the carb. I talked to a guy who has been working on Fergies his whole life and said it sounds like I might need some carb work, possibly rebuilt. Anyone on here have the same problem or have any suggestions for me to try before taking the carb off completely? I love this tractor so far and I want to get it running again soon. Thanks!

 

[MrSteve]

Stuck float (needle and seat)... Ever so carefully, tab on the float bowl with something soft (wood, plastic) and see if the fuel stops from coming out. BUT the best way, just remove the section of the carb where the fuel line goes in, that is where the needle and seat live, remove the float and the needle will be seen, remove it and clean the needle and the hole that it goes into. Sorry best I can do without knowing the carb.

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks! I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Good to know that it doesn't sound like it is too serious.

 

[MrSteve]

Also if you want to "try" and take the easy way out and see if it works... Just remove the fuel line from the carb and give a good shot of carb cleaner up in the opening (this is where the needle sits), then maybe that will clean it out, then maybe you wont have to remove the top of the carb. When taking the top off, it will be very possible you will break the gasket, then in turn that would have to be replaced or it would leek like made from that joint. Good luck and hope it works out for you.

EDIT... I didn't point out why things are different after the tractor is ran, the fuel gets warm/hot so expansion to the needle is making things get stuck, so when it cools off everything seems to be ok. Just giving a reason for my thought of the problem you are having.

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks again Mr. Steve, that is helpful info and I hope it is as easy as it sounds. Does anyone know what type of carb is on my '51 Ferguson TO-20 tractor? I was just looking at the link below and trying to figure out which one is mine....

http://www.antiquefarming.com/PDF/carburetor.pdf

 

[buckeyepost]

Well, I took the fuel line, drain plug and needle out and shot some carb cleaner in there and it seemed to run a lot smoother after it blew all the smoke out. Idled smoother and the throttle seemed to be more responsive. But, when I would shut it off it wouldn't start back up. Took the intake hose off and no gas so it wasn't flooded. Another farmer told me to make sure the gas was turned all the way on at the sediment bowl on these tractors. I had been following what the manual said about two full turns and then when the gas ran out open all the way for the reserve. Well, we opened the it up all the way and it started and ran like a top the rest of the day. The farmer also told me that 2 1/2 turns open on the carb was about normal on these tractors, seemed like it might be a little rich to me, what do you all think?

I couldn't have told you what a carb looked like this time last week, I've learned a lot and had fun tinkering with it the last few days. Thanks for the help Mr. Steve!

 

[MrSteve]

Happy to "try" and help... I did my best, I have never worked on anything of that age.

 

[buckeyepost]

Oooook... she ran fine for a while and now I think the carb is acting up again. It seems that the rod that controls the throttle is REALLY loose. I give it a quarter throttle and it opens up all the way real quick and floods it then dies on me. I can't even start the pto with my mower deck, just chokes it out and dies. Does this sound like I need some carb work done? Just seems like it's getting too much gas. It's getting harder to start and I don't even use the choke anymore because it floods so easily. And when it does start up for the first time it fires slowly blowing black smoke clouds out the back until it gets rid of all the unburnt fuel. It has even turned my chains black behind the exhaust. Any iders???

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanks again Mr. Steve, that is helpful info and I hope it is as easy as it sounds. Does anyone know what type of carb is on my '51 Ferguson TO-20 tractor? I was just looking at the link below and trying to figure out which one is mine....

http://www.antiquefarming.com/PDF/carburetor.pdf

The OEM carb for a TO-20 was the Marvel-Schebler TSX 361.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Well, I took the fuel line, drain plug and needle out and shot some carb cleaner in there and it seemed to run a lot smoother after it blew all the smoke out. Idled smoother and the throttle seemed to be more responsive. But, when I would shut it off it wouldn't start back up. Took the intake hose off and no gas so it wasn't flooded. Another farmer told me to make sure the gas was turned all the way on at the sediment bowl on these tractors. I had been following what the manual said about two full turns and then when the gas ran out open all the way for the reserve. Well, we opened the it up all the way and it started and ran like a top the rest of the day. The farmer also told me that 2 1/2 turns open on the carb was about normal on these tractors, seemed like it might be a little rich to me, what do you all think?

I couldn't have told you what a carb looked like this time last week, I've learned a lot and had fun tinkering with it the last few days. Thanks for the help Mr. Steve!

The normal setting for the power jet is about 1-1/4 turns (+/- 1/8 turn) out. Never go below one full turn out since this engine needs the charge cooling that occurs due to a slightly rich mixture.

 

[buckeyepost]

The normal setting for the power jet is about 1-1/4 turns (+/- 1/8 turn) out. Never go below one full turn out since this engine needs the charge cooling that occurs due to a slightly rich mixture.

Thanks! Yeah, I played with it a little because it was set at about 2 1/2 when I got it and I think I ended up keeping it around 1 1/2. But, regardless of where I had the carb needle set it was doing the same things I listed above... racing, lurching forward, the throttle just seems too loose or something causeing the flap to fully open and then close repeating over and over....

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanks! Yeah, I played with it a little because it was set at about 2 1/2 when I got it and I think I ended up keeping it around 1 1/2. But, regardless of where I had the carb needle set it was doing the same things I listed above... racing, lurching forward, the throttle just seems too loose or something causeing the flap to fully open and then close repeating over and over....

If I were you and you were running at 2-1/2 turns open on the main jet, I'd pull the plugs and clean the carbon off them because they are probably dry fouled with soot from too rich a mixture. Then check and see if the problem still occurs.

If it does you'll have to check the governor adjustment because that rod that moves the throttle comes from the governor. You'll need to get the Ferguson Shop Manual for directions on how to do that procedure. Log on to Yesterdaystractors.com and go to the Ferguson Forum and ask for a guy name Jeff(OH). He knows where to get manuals for under $20.

Is it still flooding? These carbs are reallys sensitive to the float setting and most of us guys with Fergusons shut the fuel tank off after shutdown so they don't flood. Sometimes the floats hang up and a sharp rap with a piece of wood will let them close. They can also get bit of dirt in the float valve that won't let the valve close. You'll have to pull it off to deal with the float valve so if you go that far, buy a can of real carb cleaner, the kind you soak the whole carb in and give it a good cleaning, at least 24 hours in the solution. Then blow out all the passages with compressed air and make sure they are clear. Cleaning is probably the most important part of a rebuild. Buy a rebuild kit and replace the gaskets, the needles , and the float valve. These are pretty rugged carbs and they are easy to rebuild.

 

[irvingj]

Another alternative to strong carb cleaners --I use this on my motorcycles-- see if you can find a shop that has an ultrasonic cleaner. They work very well, and require only water & air to rinse & clean afterward. Also won't hurt any rubber parts, as they only use water as the dunking solution....

 

[buckeyepost]

Thanks guys! I am going to pull the plugs tomorrow and check them. I also shut the fuel off after I'm done running it. I just bought a shop manual on ebay. I tried running it again yesterday and it ran fine for a while but when I hooked up the mower deck and try to run the pto it bogs down and dies. It's like it can't handle any type of load and the higher the rpms are the worse it gets. I'm starting to think that it is the governor. Are they a pain to change/work on? I think I also need a water pump because after it has been running at a higher rpm and i drop it down to idle antifreeze just starts dumping out of the center of the water pump (I think). It ran dry yesterday and it started smoking and overheating so I stopped it and added almost 2 gallons of antifreeze/water. So are the water pumps a pain to change too? Might as well do them both at the same time, huh? Thanks again for the help, this forum is all I have for trying to learn about this old girl and everyone is very helpful.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanks guys! I am going to pull the plugs tomorrow and check them. I also shut the fuel off after I'm done running it. I just bought a shop manual on ebay. I tried running it again yesterday and it ran fine for a while but when I hooked up the mower deck and try to run the pto it bogs down and dies. It's like it can't handle any type of load and the higher the rpms are the worse it gets. I'm starting to think that it is the governor. Are they a pain to change/work on? I think I also need a water pump because after it has been running at a higher rpm and i drop it down to idle antifreeze just starts dumping out of the center of the water pump (I think). It ran dry yesterday and it started smoking and overheating so I stopped it and added almost 2 gallons of antifreeze/water. So are the water pumps a pain to change too? Might as well do them both at the same time, huh? Thanks again for the help, this forum is all I have for trying to learn about this old girl and everyone is very helpful.

You wanna' be real careful not to overheat the Continental engine on the TO-'s. They are prone to cracking blocks if they overheat.
The water pump is ez to replace. It's on the front of the block and now that you have a manual you'll know how to do it. Don't futz with the governor until you that your plugs are cleaned and your mixture set correctly. Make sure that you spark is good( FAT AND BLUISH-WHITE, the color of lightning), your timing is correct and the advance is working properly. Make sure that your air filter is not clogged because that will reduce poweroutput by reducing the airflow to the engine. Also make sure that you have adequate fuel flow. Open the tank valve and hold a suitable container under the carb and emobve trhe big plug. Fuel should gush out like a cow peein' on a flat rock.If it dribbles or is intermittent, work back from the carb ( the fuel inlet on the carb has a strainer on it so check that) to the tank and find the restriction. If it's not there, then the carb has to come off so you can check the floats and the float valve. if these diagnostic checks don't solve your problem then it's time to consider the governor. 85% of the time, these engine performance problems are caused by ignition system problems, 14% 0f the time they are caused by fuel delivery, and 1% by other causes. So check the spark and the fuel before you even consider messing with the governor.

I'd strongly advise you to go to Yesterday's Tractors web site and ask your questions there. There are a bazillion years of Ferguson TO- experience available to you.

 

[buckeyepost]

Wow! Thanks again. I don't know if I need to go to Yesterday's Tractor after that (plus, their forum is harder to use). I'm glad to hear that the water pump is easy to replace because that was going to be my starting point anyway since it's obviously bad. And I know the fuel is getting to the carb b/c it floods very easily and I have drained it many times. I don't even choke it when I start it and only give it a tiny bit of throttle and it fires right up. I have cleaned out the fuel line/carb strainer and it was clogged up pretty good. I also cleaned out the air screen but the oil looked fine in the bottom so I didn't mess with it. I'm not sure how to check spark, timing or the advance but maybe when I get my manual it will explain those things. Thanks again Jerry! By the way my name is Jerry too.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Wow! Thanks again. I don't know if I need to go to Yesterday's Tractor after that (plus, their forum is harder to use). I'm glad to hear that the water pump is easy to replace because that was going to be my starting point anyway since it's obviously bad. And I know the fuel is getting to the carb b/c it floods very easily and I have drained it many times. I don't even choke it when I start it and only give it a tiny bit of throttle and it fires right up. I have cleaned out the fuel line/carb strainer and it was clogged up pretty good. I also cleaned out the air screen but the oil looked fine in the bottom so I didn't mess with it. I'm not sure how to check spark, timing or the advance but maybe when I get my manual it will explain those things. Thanks again Jerry! By the way my name is Jerry too.

When you get to the point that you need to check the spark and the timing and advance, I'll walk you through it. You'll need a timing light to check the advance mechanism and it makes it easier to set the initial timing also..

 

[buckeyepost]

Well, replaced the water pump (piece of cake) but that didn't fix the problem, it needed replaced anyway though. Took the carb to a guy who has a good reputation working on old tractors, he's going to soak it and rebuild it and have it back to me tomorrow and only charging me $40. If every business today would be this quick and affordable I think the world would be a better place! Crossing my fingers on this thing working, my grass is waist high now...

 

[buckeyepost]

Clean, rebuilt carb and she's runnning again like new! No hesitation and more power and responsiveness than it's ever had. I mowed 3 feet of wet grass up hill and she didn't even flinch. Thanks everyone for your help, especially Jerry. I guess there is a reason that everyone says if somethings not running right, check the carb 1st!

 

[irvingj]

Glad to hear you got it, buckeye! On my old motorcycles, probably 98% of the time I spend on getting them going is on the carbs. All those little passages....