Kubota-Kioti (the burning question...)

[Dmace]

I wasn't the first to complain either; maybe the problems are at a higher level of management?

If it was then there would be more complaints about other dealers. In your situation where there is multiple complaints about the same dealer, then put two and two together to see the problem is the dealer and not higher.

 

[asylum575]

Back to the question.

I was torn between the CK20 and thew BX24. The Ck was more in the line of a B7510. I really like the CK. It was definitely a solid machine. The deal breaker was the MMM. You can't have the MMM on a CK with the BH on. Not that I would mow with a TLB, but it seemed a hassle to take off the subframe for the MMM.
I went with the BX24 and two years later I'm very happy with it. The BX24 is a very well integrated machine. It's the perfect size for my 1 1/2 acres. If I had more property it would be a tough call between the Ck and the B series.
The guys over on the Kioti forum seem very happy with their machines.

Try them out and see what feels best.

Just a thought. I'd be a little concerned with the Kioti these days only because of the political situation over there. Not sure what the situation in the north will have on the south. Just saying. I'm not trying to make a political statement, i'd just be worried about parts.

 

[wildwillie]

I just bought a kubota l3400 and parked the old international b250 the l3400 is lighter but with loaded tires it does fine, it is quick and nimble. the hydro spoils you quick !. Our Kioti dealer is small, no parts, and they don't seem to hold there value like kubota. I didn't want problems in ten years.

 

[art]

So anyway back to the original Question, does anyone have expierence with Kubota verses Kioti? I am also looking for a new machine. I have a Kubota DT3000 w Loader- Backhoe. Same old story want a bigger machine. I have had no problems with my Kubota, But I have gotten to the point, where I know what I want, and what I need. I am comparing the Deere 110tbl with the L45, and the L48. The Kioti was not on my radar until I started pricing.

Your comparison is easy as Kioti doesn't build that type of a unit. The Kioti doesn't build a TLB that compares to any of those that you started your looking for. They do build a heavy chassis compact but not with hydraulics to match the 110 or L-48 or L-35.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Just a thought. I'd be a little concerned with the Kioti these days only because of the political situation over there. Not sure what the situation in the north will have on the south. Just saying. I'm not trying to make a political statement, i'd just be worried about parts.

If North Korea starts firing/targeting missiles Japan is only a short distance across the water and Japan certainly has their radar trained on the North. All bets are off who would have parts availability if the missiles start landing on anyone's shores.

Don

 

[PAB_OH]

If North Korea starts firing/targeting missiles......

All bets are off who would have parts availability if the missiles start landing on anyone's shores.

Don

QFT!!!!

If those loons start lobbing exploding projectiles I have a feeling tractor parts availability becomes a very, vefy insignificant problem for all of us.

 

[rickster]

Kioti's are what we hunt in the winter time No dealers around here, so no support either. Gear tractor! No way, not for mehydro is the only way to go
for me.

 

[JoelD]

I've owned both Kubota and Kioti, Deere and Case too for that matter.

If money were no object I'd probably go Kubota or Deere (for TLB that is, L35 or L48 or 110), their reputation is unquestionable and from my experience their reliability (aprticulalry Kubota) is second to none, their capabilities are also impressive.

As far as value, I could not beat my Kioti and therefore that's what I got. Was looking at B21 sized machines, my kioti has slightly more lifting capacity and I paid at least $5K less for a comparable machine with far fewer hours (I bought used).

For me it was that simple.

I went gear instead of HST as after repairing my deere's hydraulic reverser I got a little gun shy on hydraulic powered transmissions, the thought of internal leaks frightens me. I've never had a gear anything transmission fail.

There is a good point on what happens if North Korea does a Rambo on South Korea, couldn't imagine that going on for too long though.

Good luck,
Joel

 

[canoetrpr]

I think both are fine machines. I have a L3400 Kubota and it has been a fine machine without any problems. The original jerky 3pt was replaced under warranty.

I personally found no difference between the new 3pt and the Kioti CK 30 that I tried. Neither was as smooth as the grand L or the DK series. Both were position control and more than functional.

I would weight parts and dealer support quite heavily. If you don't have good dealers for one brand or the other in your area - with really well stocked parts counters - that is an excellent decision to go one way or the other. Really helps me that there is a good Kubota dealer on my drive to work and they tend to have every little bolt I have ever needed stocked.

FWIW Other than the 3pt valve replacement - which was a well known issue - my Kubota has needed no repair whatsoever. It is 3 years old now. I recommended Kioti to a friend who bought a CK30 and his has been in the shop a couple of times for a few warranty issues. One was a leaking cylinder. The other a fuel pump. You can't generalize with one or two experiences like this but at this point I would safely say that MY L3400 has been more reliable than HIS CK30. YMMV.

If I had a choice again betweek a CK30 and a L3400, I would get the Grand L3240. Neither compare to the Grand L in my opinion.

I honestly think that issues with the econo line of Kubota tractors have been overstated. Both the L3400 and the CK have had their issues in the past. The L3400 is a pretty well tested old and simple model.

 

[MDM]

I've said this before, but go to the Owning Operating sections for each brand and tally the number of problems over 5 to 10 pages of posts. You will find that certain brands (Kioti)have a considerable greater percentage of problems than Kubota. Now couple that with the fact that Kioti sales are insignificant compared to Kubota's compact sales - there are way more Kubota's out there with things to go wrong with them. This may mean nothing, but it is a trend shown here on TBN. Kioti's are in some cases less expensive and may have more features, but I just don't think they are up there in quality and reliability as Kubota and Deere are. I have no doubt that no one makes a finer diesel engine for compacts than Kubota. I'm not bashing Kioti, cause I like the looks and specs of them and they seem like good machines for what you pay for them.

 

[Dargo]

I would have to say "it depends". That "depends" isn't adult diapers either. There are too many variables, at least for me, to give any steadfast answer. Some want to bang the drum of price, weight and hp. If that is what you want, go by Rural King and buy one of their Tractor King tractors. They will have more weight, a Perkins designed diesel engine and a lower price than either. I have to admit that I've been impressed with what you get for the money from Montana, Zetor and Mahindra as well.

In my particular area all of the above mentioned tractors, like Kioti, share the same issue; no dealers or dealer network even remotely close. With that being a fact, you better have a spare tractor to use when you haul your (insert name) tractor a few hundred miles to the dealer if it has any problems. That's not to say that they are bad tractors though. I wouldn't be afraid to own a Montana, Kioti, Zetor, Branson, Tractor King or Mahindra tractor. It just wouldn't be that convenient for me in my area and, in my case, when I go to trade tractors I'd take a bloodbath on resale. For some, none of these issues are a factor.

Having operated and at least test driven all the above along with having owned JD, NH, and Kubota tractors over the last couple of decades, I will say that, in my personal opinion, the premium brand tractors do have more of a polished feel to operating them, have plenty of local representation for parts/service and I've always enjoyed supreme resale value. I've actually made money when selling some after buying them new. The fit, finish and overall feel of those tractors have spoiled me a bit as well. Still, if I had local dealers and the price was right, I guarantee you that I'd own any one of what I listed above for my next tractor. If you have a good Kioti dealership close to you, if the price is right and if resale isn't a factor for you, I think I'd have to suggest the Kioti if you have a need for a tractor that packs around more weight for certain chores. And, in case you are wondering, yes, there are some brand tractors that I think are just plain junk. I see no need to inject my opinion about them here because they have nothing to do with the tractors being discussed or even the brand names I injected into the conversation. I say this just so you don't think I'm one of those guys who say that "all new tractors are good tractors". I rather strongly disagree with that statement.

 

[greenmule]

There are two kioti dealers within less than an hours drive of my house,that I know of. There are two more within 1 1/2 hours drive,that I know of.

Maybe a southern w.v. thing,don't know. would say there are probably as many kioti dealers or more than deere or kubota,nearest mahindra dealer was about 2 hours away last year anyways.

 

[Dargo]

There are two kioti dealers within less than an hours drive of my house,that I know of. There are two more within 1 1/2 hours drive,that I know of.

Maybe a southern w.v. thing,don't know. would say there are probably as many kioti dealers or more than deere or kubota,nearest mahindra dealer was about 2 hours away last year anyways.

They ought to be something you can consider then. I think they took off too soon in my area and were just small places that went under. My thought is that hurt them in this area worse than if they'd never been here.

 

[Dmace]

Personally, I wouldn't rule out Kioti for 65 miles, that's barely an hours drive on highways. My tractor has been to the dealer once in almost 4 years and that was for the scheduled 50-hour service which was included in the sale. As long as you can change oil, operate a grease gun and turn a large socket wrench, you will not need a dealer often with any of the big name tractors. I can't say as much for the Cub since many have been having problems with them since MTD took over.

For me more standard features, stronger attachments, longer warranty, heavier weight, smoother 3pt, and a higher pump capacity are all well worth a 65 mile drive. 65 miles is nothing compared to what some do for the right tractor, some members have purchased their tractors from dealers hundreds of miles away without problems.

It would benefit you greatly to at least get a quote on a Kioti and make sure you compare apples to apples including all the features like suspension seat, mid PTO, rear remotes (if needed), etc...

If you are looking at a 20hp machine, the CK20 is a great machine in that class. You will not find another manufacturer that can come close to the FEL capacity and BH strength in a sub-25hp machine.

For a quick comparison:
Kubota BX2660: 25.5hp, FEL lifts 745lbs at pins to 71.3" high and 670lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.
JD 2305: 24.1hp, FEL lifts 562lbs at pins to 73.4" and 681lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.
Kioti CK20: 22hp, FEL lifts 1074lbs at pins to 88" and 1,305lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.

 

[rioravioli]

I can't say as much for the Cub since many have been having problems with them since MTD took over

You must be referring to the Cub-Cadets purchased at the big box stores re: Lawn tractors -

as the SC2400 is a new (last year venture) between Yanmar and Cub Cadet (made by Yanmar) at least that's what I was told. Again, I am no expert don't claim to be I am a proffesed newbie and only know what i read and have been told by dealers and owners on these type of forums, i don't own anything yet.

As far as the 65 miles - when the snow fly's it might as well be 365 miles I don't want to deal with lugging tractors to and fro just in case i get a lemon, you have heard of lemons haven't you?

 

[froggy]

Like many here, local service is a big deal. I don't have a large HD truck and trailer to haul with and that is the reason I would only look at dealers within 30 miles of the farm.

This eliminates everyone except Case, JD, Kubota (3), MF and NH (2). Only the Case and JD have mobile service trucks. The two of the Kubota dealers, MFand NH will come and pickup the tractor is needed.

Will be purchasing a new tractor this Fall and you can bet it will only one of these four brands regardless of how good the other brands are because of the local service convenience.

 

[LD1]

For a quick comparison:
Kubota BX2660: 25.5hp, FEL lifts 745lbs at pins to 71.3" high and 670lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.
JD 2305: 24.1hp, FEL lifts 562lbs at pins to 73.4" and 681lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.
Kioti CK20: 22hp, FEL lifts 1074lbs at pins to 88" and 1,305lbs of lift 24" behind 3pt hitch.

I for one believe that either kubota is way underrated or kioti is way over-rated on the loader specs. Let me back it up with facts pulled off both their websites.

Kioti lift cylinder = 1.18" Max PSI = 2682
Kubota Lift Cyl = 1.57" Max PSI = 1778

Kioti cylinder = 2933lbs of force
kubota cyl = 3442 lbs of force (even at much lower pressure)

times 2 cyls. The kubota is mutting out over 1000lbs more force where the cylinder attaches to the boom. How is it possible that the kioti can lift almost 300lbs more at the pins I know the geometry and angles may be just a little different but get real.

 

[LD1]

I'll even give a few more example to let everyone ponder. All of these # were taken directly off mfg. websites.

L3400 - lift cap = 1142 combined cylinder force 11548 lbs
Bx2660 - lift cap = 745 " " " " 6884 lbs
KL120 - lift cap = 1074 " " " 5986 lbs
KL130 - lift cap = 1155 " " " 9621 lbs


Even between the two kioti loaders their is confusion. the kl130 cylinders ar pushing on the loader arms with 60% more force than the kl120, so why can it only lift about 9% more?????

And the big one is...The 3400 has almost double the force at the cylinder as the kl120, but can only lift 68 lbs more

 

[Dmace]

I know the geometry and angles may be just a little different but get real.

The right geometry is all your need, I saw a 150lb man move a 3,000lb rock with fulcrums and levers.

Kubota may be underrating but I know Kioti is not overrating. I had a 500 gallon propane tank delivered for my standby generator and the delivery guy could not get up the hill to my backyard. I hooked a chain over the pins and to the two hooks and lifted it easily about 2ft off the ground. I was able to drive it uphill about 200ft to the backyard too! The delivery driver was impressed and said the tank is a hair under 1,000lbs total.

As far as the 65 miles - when the snow fly's it might as well be 365 miles I don't want to deal with lugging tractors to and fro just in case i get a lemon, you have heard of lemons haven't you?

When the snow flies, you not going to be moving any tractor easily. You won't go wrong with either tractor but it is still ridiculous to pay more money for less tractor just because it's closer. In my opinion anyways...
I've heard of lemons, but I stopped buying Ford's a long time ago.

 

[LD1]

Geometry does make a difference but not that much.

And their is not a discrepency (sp) with all of their loader either. The 351 loader I thin is right on at 1412 lbs. It has 50mm cylinders. My 3400 has 45mm cylinders. The 351 are a little larger so I would expect it to lift slightly more. And it does, to the tune of 270lbs.

I think if the kl120 loader can ACTUALLY lift 1074 lbs at the pins with the tiny 1.18" cylinders and 2682psi, Then I think all the other loaders mentioned are WAY underrated. The only other posibility is maybe it is a typo on the website, b/c 1.18" cylinders are tiny. The rod on my cylinders is that big, so now I am wondering if they gave the rod dia. instead of cyl diameter. If that is the case, it all makes sense now.

And to be fair to JD you quoted the loader on a 2305 which rins a much lower psi. Same loader on the 2320 will do 800lbs at the pins.