Bad Oil New Tractor

[dodge man]

I can remember when Consumer's Reports did a test on automobile oil filters several years ago. They tired out just about every brand at the time, but this has been maybe as much as 20 years ago. There was a difference between them. I remember at that time Fram was on average one of the best, but depending on the application, others were often better.

My point is that there is a difference in them, but you really have no way of knowing if what you are using is the best. With my limited knowledge of manufactoring, I am just about sure that for most applications, the tractor makers are using an "off the shelf" oil filter. This means it is already being made by someone. Why would they want to design a new oil filter for every engine they make?

From what I have read, Kubota SUDT may be a unique product. My understanding is that it gives much better cold weather performance.

I can remember a friend of a friend who had a Champion spark plug fail and damaged his engine. He was not able to get any money from Champion.

 

[two_bit_score]

Part II of my reply...

I realize the apparent problem is the product purchased was improperly labeled and in fact not Smitty's Super Trac Tractor Hydraulic Fluid.

I went to the Smitty's website for additional information and KUBOTA IS NOT MENTIONED as one of the recommended applications for this product...

Here is what it says:

"Super Trac Tractor Hydraulic Fluid is a universal lubricant for farm and industrial tractors and construction equipment. Super Trac is a blend of highly refined base stocks selected for their inherent thermal stability. It has a premium EP, anti-wear additive package and highly active rust, corrosion and oxidation inhibitor, all in a balanced performance package to insure proper lubrication, wear protection, oxidation stability, water tolerance, low brake chatter, compatibility with seals, o-rings, and packing materials. Super Trac is a true multiple service oil recommended for the majority of hydraulic, wet brake, and transmission requirements of most equipment manufacturers, including Allis Chalmer, J. I. Case, John Deere, Ford, International Harvester, Massey-Ferguson, Allison and White."

Reference Link: Super S Oils

Probably why he felt the need to call and ask if Smitty's was OK to use in his tractor.

How many months has it been since the original fluid change and still the offending fluid has not been analyized?

 

[neucam]

Bad story, your first gut feeling was right, something was wrong with the oil in the can. I would love to know what the green stuff really was. I would not have excepted the parts person's explanation. I would have had them prove to you it was the same oil as recommended by Kubota or open another oil can. But people make costly mistakes. Our local wine grower had one of his helpers spray the grape vines for fungus. They had two barrels, one fungus spray, one Round Up weed killer, which one did he use, weed killer, a few acre patch of vines 3 years later is just starting to come back. Very costly, could you sue the worker, not really.

 

[Soundguy]

the green oil wouldn't have scared me... any color dye can be added to oil.

when the oils viscosity was different. that would have alarmed me and made me do an immediate flush.. I'm betting hte first 'thick' green oil was a hypoid gear oil...

as for the hyd remotes installed wrong / incorrect.. that's a boneheaded move by a dealer that should have known better.... depending on the issue.. i bet a hyd pump was running against relief and that's aprt of the squeal.. add thick gear oil in there and the relief may not have been able to keep up with the flow.. add a hyd clutch pack / independent pto, and i can see why the pto squealed... kick wet brakes inthere and gear oil not made for them.. and well..... sounds expensive..

soundguy

Good Evenin Broker than broke,
I feel for you, thats a terrible story ! I think the only way your going to get anything out of the parts store, is through an attorney, and thats obviously going to be costly ! Good luck with it if thats what you decide !

Im thinking you just taught many people a very valuable lesson on buying fluids for their tractor ! Dont skimp bottom line, on a valuable piece of equipment !

You may be able to get some restitution from the parts store but I dont see a new tractor in your future unless you can get Johnny Cochrane to represent you !

Pay the dealer to get it back to where it was before the fatal mistake and use the proper fluids in the future !

BTW welcome to TBN !

 

[swines]

While the lubricants found from equipment manufacturers may be packaged under contract by an outside refinery, the formulations may not be just repackaged oils from the oil company.

In many cases, the lubricant formulations contain additives specified, and in some cases, provided by the equipment manufacturer. John Deere has a number of proprietary additives that they provide to be added to their fluids by the company making and packaging the fluid. In fact on some products, you will see that the label of ingredients will include the statement "trade secret additives."

I don't believe that in the large picture, selling oil, grease, hydraulic fluids, etc. is a huge profit center for the equipment manufacturer, but a way for them to help ensure that the equipment (that costs many, many times the amount you will ever use in fluids expenditures) works as long as possible at the performance levels to which it has been engineered.

You're certainly free to use whatever YOU think is equal to the OEM lubricants, but, while the substitute may be listed to have the same performance level - in all probability it will not have the same additives as the OEM product.

I don't think you're going to get very far with a lawsuit unless you can prove exactly what was in the green fluid bucket with traceability to the manufacturer. They cannot have incorrectly labeled a single pail - that is nearly statistically impossible in the manufacturing and shipping process.

The dealer doesn't order a single pail, but numbers of the same product usually delivered on a pallet. That means the dealer has an entire pallet of the same product that has been mislabeled. Unless the manufacturer has issued a recall to the dealer for mislabeled products that includes the batch number you've purchased - you're not going to get anywhere.

And BTW - it's NOT Kubota's fault that YOU chose to use an other than OEM product - and YOU put it into the tractor. You will find the phrase "caveat emptor" used in law - "let the buyer beware." That means YOU'RE responsible for what you buy. The OEM products would have been warranted by the equipment manufacturer to be the correct product for the equipment regardless of whether there was a mislabeling issue or not.

You chose to buy an other than OEM product - now I guess you get to see whether "Smittys" has the same warranty on their product or not...

 

[nunyabinis]

Now this is what I call a Nightmare Scenario. YIKES!!!


He should have listened to that little voice telling him something was wrong. Unfortunately, every time I ignore my own little voice it usually ends up costing money too. Hopefully not THIS expensive though.



Of course there was the time with the 1992 Chevy with the seized spark plug...... that little voice was SCREAMING........ then $3,500 later........



ALWAYS listen to that little voice.




.

 

[kenstrac]

the green oil wouldn't have scared me... any color dye can be added to oil.

when the oils viscosity was different. that would have alarmed me and made me do an immediate flush.. I'm betting hte first 'thick' green oil was a hypoid gear oil...

as for the hyd remotes installed wrong / incorrect.. that's a boneheaded move by a dealer that should have known better.... depending on the issue.. i bet a hyd pump was running against relief and that's aprt of the squeal.. add thick gear oil in there and the relief may not have been able to keep up with the flow.. add a hyd clutch pack / independent pto, and i can see why the pto squealed... kick wet brakes inthere and gear oil not made for them.. and well..... sounds expensive..

soundguy

You might be on to something here soundguy Smittys does not sell antifreeze in 5 gal pails only gals and 55 gal drums according to Smitty's web site they have 9 filling lines and I cant see them packaging antifreeze on an oil filling line much less changing 5 gal to 1 gal on a line or or the other way around.
It probably was rear end oil

 

[broker than broke]

Well, I think some of you folks are misreading what I wrote. I had a gut feeling, big deal. A gut feeling is not science. If you have a gut feeling about getting on an airplane and you go ahead and get on it and it crashes, the the airline is not liable?? That's crazy.

I had a gut feeling there was something wrong so I carried the residue in the container to the AUTHORIZED AGENT and he ASSURED me it was fine. I reminded him it was a new tractor, and it was the very first service, but then he REASSURED me it was fine. I said OK.

You folks would flunk a business law class.

The guy that sold the oil is liable as is the manufacturer. The only way I would have any liability is if I SAW some gravel or something BLATANT like that in the oil. Then the burden of proof would be on the AUTHORIZED AGENT TO PROVE THAT I SAW IT.

The container the oil came in CLEARLY STATES the oil meets Kubota Specs. I have about a dozen containers around here because I have been using it for years, and they ALL say that. I have already met with the attorney and I have some knowledge of consumer law although I AM NOT an attorney.

I have really received some interesting comments though. I think some of you thought I wanted Kubota to replace the tractor, I DO NOT. I want the AUTHORIZED AGENT WHO SOLD THE OIL AND HELD HIMSELF OUT AS KNOWING HIS PRODUCT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND REQUIRED BY LAW.

If they are deliberately saying the oil meets Kubota specs when they KNOW they are not then that is FRAUD. I don't believe that at all. I think their oil is fine, I have been buying and using it for years and everybody I know that has equipment uses it. I just happen to buy a jug of pills that some guy put the wrong pills in. I have NEVER had that happen before, and most likely will never again. But I will concede this, if it DOES happen again, I will make the guy reassure my in writing or buy the oil right back at that point. I am NOT required to be an oil expert, I do not make or sell the stuff.

To see so many people think that a gut feeling rises to the level of a fact or science is kind of amusing and then troubling.

Like I say, if I have a gut feeling that an airplane flight is doomed, and then get on it and it crashes do my family not have a claim?? That is utterly absurd.

If I go back to the pharmacy and say "Mr. Druggist these pills are the wrong color and he reassures me they are correct, and I take them is it my fault"? The answer is NO. In fact, the druggists responsibility INCREASES because he had a SECOND chance to correct the problem and he didn't take it.

That's the way it works. Interesting comments though. Thanks.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Well, I think some of you folks are misreading what I wrote. I had a gut feeling, big deal. A gut feeling is not science. If you have a gut feeling about getting on an airplane and you go ahead and get on it and it crashes, the the airline is not liable?? That's crazy.

I had a gut feeling there was something wrong so I carried the residue in the container to the AUTHORIZED AGENT and he ASSURED me it was fine. I reminded him it was a new tractor, and it was the very first service, but then he REASSURED me it was fine. I said OK.

You folks would flunk a business law class.

The guy that sold the oil is liable as is the manufacturer. The only way I would have any liability is if I SAW some gravel or something BLATANT like that in the oil. Then the burden of proof would be on the AUTHORIZED AGENT TO PROVE THAT I SAW IT.

The container the oil came in CLEARLY STATES the oil meets Kubota Specs. I have about a dozen containers around here because I have been using it for years, and they ALL say that. I have already met with the attorney and I have some knowledge of consumer law although I AM NOT an attorney.

I have really received some interesting comments though. I think some of you thought I wanted Kubota to replace the tractor, I DO NOT. I want the AUTHORIZED AGENT WHO SOLD THE OIL AND HELS HIMSELF OUT AS KNOWING HIS PRODUCT TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND REQUIRED BY LAW.

If they are deliberately saying the oil meets Kubota specs when they KNOW they are not then that is FRAUD. I don't believe that at all. I think their oil is fine, I have been buying and using it for years and everybody I know that has equipment uses it. I just happen to buy a jug of pills that some guy put the wrong pills in. I have NEVER had that happen before, and most likely will never again. But I will concede this, if it DOES happen again, I will make the guy reassure my in writing or buy the oil right back at that point. I am NOT required to be an oil expert, I do not make or sell the stuff.

To see so many people think that a gut feeling rises to the level of a fact or science is kind of amusing and then troubling.

Like I say, if I have a gut feeling that an airplane flight is doomed, and then get on it and it crashes do my family not have a claim?? That is utterly absurd.

If I go back to the pharmacy and say "Mr. Druggist these pills are the wrong color and he reassures me they are correct, and I take them is it my fault"? The answer is NO. In fact, the druggists responsibility INCREASES because he had a SECOND chance to correct the problem and he didn't take it.

That's the way it works. Interesting comments though. Thanks.

I don't know what type of parts store you have there but the guys who work at them here generally don't even know how to change their own oil.

What I and I feel a lot of others feel is that as soon as you noticed the two pails of oil looked different and the viscosity was different then you should have bit the bullet and trusted that gut feeling regardless to what the clerk at the parts store said. the store gave you more oil to flush your system so they did what they could to help you out but ultimately it looks like this is a fight you should take up with the oil manufacturer.

The guy selling you oil isn't a pharmacist, heck, I doubt he even knows how to do an oil analisis. The pharmacist is on the hook for his mistakes because he went to school for that job and people have to rely on him. The guy selling parts didn't go to school for selling parts and oil. Trying to compare this whole situation to a pharmacy is way off base and only hurts your argument. He is just a low level employee with no required education or experience for that job. Just punch some buttons and find the correct parts.

 

[ultrarunner]

So... have you had the contents analyzed?

Very good think you kept the pail since the company's website does not list Kubota for the product you bought...

I'm not a lawyer... only play arbitrator from time to time.

My belief is your case hinges on the residual green fluid in the pail that is listed as meeting Kubota Spec for your equipment.