tractor pricing vs engine size

[Altex]

Yea, lots of misinformation in this thread.

When you see the same block used across models, its never just an injector change or reprogrammed computer. These is more to the story than what your seeing on the spec sheets.

Messick, just wonder what your opinion is. Putting price aside, compare two of the same blocks with different HP, in the same size tractor, used for the same tasks. Is there an advange of going with the lower HP for longevity? That is, will the higher HP put more stress on the engine and cause a shorter engine life? And if it does, do you think the difference in life span between the low and high HP engine is significant?

Thanks.

 

[radman1]

Yea, lots of misinformation in this thread.

When you see the same block used across models, its never just an injector change or reprogrammed computer. These is more to the story than what your seeing on the spec sheets.

I beg to differ. Check the part numbers. At least with Case-ih and JDs in the mid and large ag tractors, the part numbers throughout the tractor series will be nearly identical unless the engine has a different displacement. The only difference has to be the amount of fuel injected, which is likely only due to different pressure in the high pressure fuel rail system, fuel pump, injector or the turbo is different. The Case-IH magnum models 215, 245 and 275 vary by 60hp. The turbocharger, intercooler, fuel pump, block, crankshaft, piston and any other part I looked up have the same identical part number. The 275 uses a different injector, and has a 5 core radiator vs 4 core in the small tractors. Transmissions, wheel base, height, and hydraulic capacity are identical. The 275 uses a 12 bolt front end standard and the other 2 use 10 bolt, but can be optioned to 12 bolt (12 bolt is recommended for front duals and carrying tanks). 3 pt lift on the 275 is 14,970 lbs but the others can be optioned to the same or higher lift. The difference is cylinder size. The 275 costs thousands more than a similarly optioned 215 because of different injectors and slightly larger radiator and computer. One wouldn't think the injectors or radiator could cost that much.

 

[psdx]

Look carefully at the RPMs used to deliver the rated horsepower. At least for compact tractors, they either increase the displacement slightly, or they bump up the RPM to get a few extra hp.

The B3030 and B3200 use the same basic engine (V1505). The B3030 is 30 hp at 2600 rpm and the B3200 is 32 hp at 2700 rpm. And both the B2920 and my ZD331 use the D1305 engine. In the B2920 it's 29 hp at 2800 rpm, and in the ZD331 it's 31 hp at 3000 rpm. Yes, Kubota does make the engine numbers different in these applications (last 2 digits) to account for slight application differences. But unless you have forced induction, you can only increase horsepower by increasing displacement or engine speed.

Also note (as mentioned previously) that there are sometimes subtle differences besides the hp rating when moving up the line.

 

[milkie62]

Guess I opened up a wasp nest on this one.

 

[art]

Milkie you did fine and it's not really a problem!

There are other things that get into it, like the size chassis that goes with the horsepower! Some models stay lighter, often giving a price point on the horsepower vs the weight.
Some are heavy on all chassis sizes, these are often older designs that were used by larger companies twenty to forty years ago and were discontinued by the original designers and later were purchased by another company and put back into use.
These are some of the more economical chasssis to buy as they are cheaper to build with the older cast being cheaper to buy then some of the newer nodular cast pieces being used which is some of the strongest cast being built in this industry.

There is a lot to tractors, the best to look at is what you need to do, then figure how long you want to do it and then start sizing the tractor, start looking for brands that are available in your area and then start the pricing. The best part, come back here and throw it around again!~

 

[milkie62]

Well I was looking at the JD 5000 series back a couple of years.All across the board in the brochure cubic inch remained the same.Turbo-ing was the only difference and tire size on the 2 highest HP models.Weight was almost identical and probably would have been if they all had the same tires.It will be a hard sell to me to try and tell me those 4 tractors were all different even though there was a 30 HP spread.Coolant capacity even the same on the turbo'ed vs non-turbo'ed models.

 

[RollingsFarms]

Well I was looking at the JD 5000 series back a couple of years.All across the board in the brochure cubic inch remained the same.Turbo-ing was the only difference and tire size on the 2 highest HP models.Weight was almost identical and probably would have been if they all had the same tires.It will be a hard sell to me to try and tell me those 4 tractors were all different even though there was a 30 HP spread.Coolant capacity even the same on the turbo'ed vs non-turbo'ed models.

the injectors are different on all the models you're speaking of, as well as the fuel pump. same parts, just different settings basically. from what i understand the turbo is the same size in all of them as well, just boost is different in all 4 models. so for instance, the turbo on the 5103 is the same size as the one on the 5403, just that the 5403 puts out more boost then the 5103 turbo. the 2.9 engine that's in this series of tractor is acctually rated for up to 85 engine hp and the 9x3 transmission is rated to hold up to 90hp. same entry level transmission you find on the 5000,5010,5020, and 5025 series tractors. do a search on here for a guy named TurkFlyer. he worked on this series when it first came out and his posts will answer 99% of your questions. that's where i got my information from, that and the mechanic at my dealership.