Hose crimps

   / Hose crimps #61  
Hydraulic Hose Guy,

I agree with most of what you said, but the last paragraph is what I have been trying to get you hose guys to say. We/most of us, know darn well that most hoses can be made up with a mixture of brand names. Do you guys take for granted that the crimping machines are doing the job they are supposed to do, and do you preform a calibration check after so many crimps? Do you have to cut open any of your crimps, to see if they are within specs, or does the manufacture send people around to do this work?
 
   / Hose crimps #62  
Are the dies calibrated regularly?

Wedge
 
   / Hose crimps #63  
Hydraulic Hose Guy,

I agree with most of what you said, but the last paragraph is what I have been trying to get you hose guys to say. We/most of us, know darn well that most hoses can be made up with a mixture of brand names.

JJ, you'll never have a problem getting me to say that. We've built our business in large part by being interchangeable with the brand name suppliers.

Do you guys take for granted that the crimping machines are doing the job they are supposed to do, and do you preform a calibration check after so many crimps? Do you have to cut open any of your crimps, to see if they are within specs, or does the manufacture send people around to do this work?

In most cases, a visual inspection and a measurement with digital calipers is enough to tell you the fitting is crimped to spec. If it's not, we will inspect the crimper and run a few test crimps to determine why it isn't.

For years in our shop, the policy was to measure every crimp. We relaxed on that, because it was time consuming and it was extremely rare to find a problem. Now, in practice, we measure the first crimp every time we reset the crimper. If the first crimp is correct, the machine isn't going to suddenly be out of calibration for the next ten or twenty identical crimps.

As long as the finished crimp is correct, the machine is properly calibrated. If it isn't, we have a procedure to recalibrate it. That procedure only takes a couple of minutes, and can be done by anyone who's been trained to operate that crimper. I would go over the procedure, but we have four different crimpers in our shop and each one has it's own procedure.

Cutting open a crimp is something that we only do if we have a fitting blow off and we had already exhausted every other possibility to determine the cause of the problem. The point if cutting open a crimped fitting is not to measure the crimp, but to examine the hose and fitting for internal defects. Usually, we can determine the problem and correct before this is necessary.

I should note that we have multiple crimpers and we make hundreds of crimps per day. Because of that, we are taking dozens of measurements and verifying the calibration of our crimpers many times during each work day. In a shop with less volume, that won't be necessary, but they should still take a new caliper measurement each time they set or adjust their crimper.
 
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   / Hose crimps #64  
Are the dies calibrated regularly?

Wedge

Dies cannot be calibrated. The machine itself has a calibration procedure that the operator uses to make sure that the micrometer setting is accurate. If the machine is properly calibrated, and a particular die set will still won't crimp properly, that die may be worn and need to be replaced.

Some dies/collets (ex. Weatherhead) use a rubber die cage that can be replaced without having to purchase a whole new die set. Since this cage is rubber, it can dry out or become worn before the metal parts of the die. If that happens, it's a relatively inexpensive part to replace. If the metal teeth of the die are worn or damaged, you should just throw it out and replace it with a new doe.

Keep in mind these dies are hardened steel and intended to last for thousands of crimps. If you maintain your crimper and you lubricate the dies properly with each use, you should go many years before needing to replace any dies.
 
   / Hose crimps #65  
Hydraulic Hose Guy ,

Thanks for the info. At least that gives us something we can understand, and know what to ask for when we visit a hydraulic shop. Knowledge is power.

I want to deviate from the thread a little, and mention about knowing things. Last year I went into a Sun tire place and ask them if they could plug a tire. His answer, absolutely not, our insurance co. forbids it, and it just isn't safe. He said the only thing they do for a flat is to break it down, and patch it from the inside, and of course the cost difference of a plug and a patch is, a plug cost $5, and a patch cost $20. I already know which one they will choose to endorse.

Well, guess what, I was in that same store today, and guess what I saw. A guy with a plug tool in his hand and watched him plug a tire on the lift. I then asked about the situation last year, and he said they sometimes do it. I wonder if I had not seen that, would the manager have told me they only do patches. CREDIBILITY is what counts.
 
   / Hose crimps #66  
Hydraulic Hose Guy ,

Thanks for the info. At least that gives us something we can understand, and know what to ask for when we visit a hydraulic shop. Knowledge is power.

I want to deviate from the thread a little, and mention about knowing things. Last year I went into a Sun tire place and ask them if they could plug a tire. His answer, absolutely not, our insurance co. forbids it, and it just isn't safe. He said the only thing they do for a flat is to break it down, and patch it from the inside, and of course the cost difference of a plug and a patch is, a plug cost $5, and a patch cost $20. I already know which one they will choose to endorse.

Well, guess what, I was in that same store today, and guess what I saw. A guy with a plug tool in his hand and watched him plug a tire on the lift. I then asked about the situation last year, and he said they sometimes do it. I wonder if I had not seen that, would the manager have told me they only do patches. CREDIBILITY is what counts.
Credibility - Honesty. Now you know what kind of shop you're dealing with. Me I'd avoid the place even if it cost more in doing so. You can do many things to keep my business, but you lie once and I wont be back unless you're the last place in town.

HHG - I understand that dies can't be calibrated, what I meant was to check them for wear. IE you set the dial for a 20mm crimp and get a 25mm crimp. I'm guessing that would be a worn die. Emphasis on guess. From there you could adjust the dial or get a new die?



Wedge
 
   / Hose crimps #67  
HHG - I understand that dies can't be calibrated, what I meant was to check them for wear. IE you set the dial for a 20mm crimp and get a 25mm crimp. I'm guessing that would be a worn die. Emphasis on guess. From there you could adjust the dial or get a new die?

A crimp that is out by 5mm is more like someone put the wrong die in the crimper. Our own crimpers that we sell at DHH have an effective range of 3to 4 mm per die, so it would be nearly impossible to miss by 5 mm. What happens more often is that your crimp is off by one or two hundredths of an inch.

That said, if you don't get what you expected, the first thing to do is to check that you put the right die in the machine, that the pressure plate, die and compression cone are seated properly, and that you set the micrometer correctly. When you're doing that, you also make sure everything is generously lubricated. 99% of the time, you've just fixed the problem.

On the rare occasion that doesn't fix the problem, you recalibrate the machine. As I said before, this is a relatively simple process on most machines and should only take the operator a few minutes to adjust the calibration.

If you've done everything above, and you are still not getting the proper crimp diameter, then either the die is worn or the crimper is damaged somehow. At this point, I would inspect the die for wear and probably determine it needed to be replaced. If the die isn't the problem after you've gone through all of this, then you have a serious problem with your machine and you should contact the factory for service or help troubleshooting the problem with your machine.

Hose crimpers come in variety of sizes and capabilities. Some of them are very simple mechanical devices and some of them are very complicated with computerized controls. They range in price from about $1k to over $20K. The inexpensive ones usually require less maintenance, but they don't do as much. If you've got a $10K or $20K crimper, then it's probably got a lot of sophisticated electronics on it, and the electronics are hardest things to troubleshoot. We have a couple of these in our shop, and guess what? They're the ones that most often need service. Still, for the volume that we do, and wide range of hose assembly tasks we perform (including hoses up to 2" ID and larger), we need these machines because they do things that our smaller and less expensive machines can't.
 
   / Hose crimps #68  
What a story about crimping a hose .

I work 19 years in hydraulicks , the only reason wy you don't get guarantee
is that ... alle teh compny's want to sell theyr own products.

The hose the swage inserts the ferules are all made according a DIn our Iso our SAE standard.

It should not be a problem..... tthe guarantee...... but ssafty first ..

Eus
 

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