Dodge and Cummins No More????

[Renze]

Why no gooseneck type (style) trailers in Europe with electric brakes??? pulled with 10,000 GVW dual wheel trucks with pickup beds and or metal flat beds with 16" or 17" or 19" wheels and tires??? Notice that most rigs that you see hauling farm equipment in Europe would require a CDL driving license in USA---26001 Lbs and larger rigs??? What do they haul their compact and utility tractors on in Europe---from town to the farm etc----do they drive them everywhere???? ---Their cattle to auction etc and of course their horses to the local roping's???

The Sprinter comes on 195/65 R16 wheels in Europe: They are adapted to the American taste by putting them on 215/75 R16 tires, that look less skinny but sway a bit more.

80% of the 10.000 GVW trucks are all downrated to 3.5 ton (7 716 pounds) so they can be driven with a small drivers license B. When above 3.5 ton, you're going to pay tax, comply to the trucking laws (keep an administration of the hours you drive each day, and if you take enough breaks, extra paperwork, tax, etcetera.) At my previous employer, we converted these 5 ton units to 3.5 ton GVW semitrailer tractors. This trend started in the Netherlands ( my old boss was the inventor of the principle, with a 90hp Merc van in 1986 with a trailer which had the surge brake system built into the 5th wheel: Later ones had air brakes with electric compressor, because of sloppy bowden cables, and dead stroke of the surge system) but it starts to spread out to Germany and Belgium as well.
Trailerbouw Elburg ( I changed jobs 8 months ago but all trailers shown on this page are proudly engineered by me, including the tag trailer with electrohydraulic steering... )

Electric brakes never catched on in Europe. any trailer with a (legal) weight over 3.5 ton has air brakes, recently a manufacturer got their hydraulic brake system approved by the authorities, making use of the electro hydraulic pump, computer and sensors of the Bosch ABS/ESP system.

Farm stuff is hauled on surge braked trailers, which are allowed to 3,5 ton GVW and pulled by vans or 4wds like a Nissan Patrol or Toyota Landcruiser.
Most horses are hauled in two horse, 2 ton tandem trailers behind mid sized family cars. Some also have a plywood box on a Sprinter chassis-cab, which means that they can haul 4 horses with a 3.5 ton van and a 2 ton trailer. Others also have 3 axle turn table steered trailers for 4 horses behind a 4wd car.

Professional horsemen all want a status vehicle like a Scania truck with room for 5 horses, and a complete living room with beds and a shower: Roelofsen Raalte - About Roelofsen

 

[aczlan]

Trailerbouw Elburg ( I changed jobs 8 months ago but all trailers shown on this page are proudly engineered by me, including the tag trailer with electrohydraulic steering... )

Is there a backup lock to keep the upper deck of this trailer off of the top of the car below it if the lift cylinders fail?

Others also have 3 axle turn table steered trailers for 4 horses behind a 4wd car.

Sounds interesting, got any pictures?

Aaron Z

 

[Builder]

Man is this thread off-topic.

 

[RollingsFarms]

here's an example to backup what Builder's is trying to get accross. i was getting my oil changed and tires rotated the other day at a local shop i use. the Chevy dealer i do business with is just accross the street, so i figured i'd go kill some time and look around. there on the lot were 2 Chevy 2500 HD's. both were 2008's and both were the same color, same features, same everything. except one was the gas 6.0 and the other was the Duramax. i looked the trucks over for a good 15 min, comparing the two, and that's the ONLY difference between the two i saw. ironically they both had 17,000 miles on them(one had 143 more miles on it, the diesel if i remember correctly). curiosity got the best of me so i walked inside to find David(the salesman i use) and asked him what the prices were. guess what? the diesel was $6,000 more. the gas was 33,900 and the diesel was $39,900. not a bad price considering both of these trucks were over $40K brand new, but just thought i would reiterate Builders point in that the diesels do bring 5-6K more when it's all said and done.

 

[Builder]

here's an example to backup what Builder's is trying to get accross. i was getting my oil changed and tires rotated the other day at a local shop i use. the Chevy dealer i do business with is just accross the street, so i figured i'd go kill some time and look around. there on the lot were 2 Chevy 2500 HD's. both were 2008's and both were the same color, same features, same everything. except one was the gas 6.0 and the other was the Duramax. i looked the trucks over for a good 15 min, comparing the two, and that's the ONLY difference between the two i saw. ironically they both had 17,000 miles on them(one had 143 more miles on it, the diesel if i remember correctly). curiosity got the best of me so i walked inside to find David(the salesman i use) and asked him what the prices were. guess what? the diesel was $6,000 more. the gas was 33,900 and the diesel was $39,900. not a bad price considering both of these trucks were over $40K brand new, but just thought i would reiterate Builders point in that the diesels do bring 5-6K more when it's all said and done.

And you'll see that continue right up through and past 100K miles. It does pay off to own a diesel when it comes time to trade you get most of it paid back.

 

[Renze]

Is there a backup lock to keep the upper deck of this trailer off of the top of the car below it if the lift cylinders fail?

No, just like on hydraulic manlifts and lifting devices, the cylinders are equipped with check valves, which can only be opened when there is hydraulic pressure: the hydraulic pressure on the rod side of the cylinder, will open the valve to let the oil flow to the tank. This serves to purposes: If a hose bursts, it wont move, and: It allows for a controlled lowering of the weight, the weight can never draw a vacuum in the pressure line because the dropping double acting cylinders need more oil volume on the rod side, than the pump can deliver.

This method is according to the European machinery directive for any lifting device for personnell or goods.


Even if a mechanical lock was available, most users dont make use of it anyways because of the hassle. It is recommended though, to change the cylinder seals every 5 year just to make sure. In this application the cylinder seals dont wear that much, the oil never runs hot and the cylinders are used 12 times a day at most, but mostly only 4 times a day. Also there is only 80 bar of pressure required to keep that deck up. When the cylinders have to punch it out, the max pressure, with vehicles 2 ton each (most European vehicles dont weigh that much), is around 180 bar.
Thats totally different than the cylinders on a wheeled loader, which have way more intensive duty cycles, with hot oil, pressurised to the max, and allways dust and sand to wear the dust lip and rod seals down.

When i make an educated guess, these trailers can run for 30 years without requiring new seals due to the limited number of lift/lower cycles, low oil temperatures and low pressure (the cylinders are designed for 250 bar but only 180 peak will occur, because the electric pump cant deliver more) . But to be absolutely safe i recommended to replace them every 5 years, as a cheap insurance.

 

[Groo]

I was hearing Cummins was on the way out and Mercedes was on the way in when Diamler purchased them. it never happened.

 

[Builder]

I was hearing Cummins was on the way out and Mercedes was on the way in when Diamler purchased them. it never happened.

Mercedes was smart enough to recognize their customer base was buying a very popular Cummins diesel which, oh by the way, came wrapped up in a Dodge truck.

Guys, this is basic knowledge: 9 of 10 guys buy Dodge diesels for the Cummins, not the truck. The truck itself is fine, but what's under the hood is THE selling point of this truck.

 

[WilliamBos]

I was hearing Cummins was on the way out and Mercedes was on the way in when Diamler purchased them. it never happened.

The Mercedes diesel was planned for the 4500/5500 Rams. They should still do it, leaps and bounds better than Cummins.

 

[Builder]

The Mercedes diesel was planned for the 4500/5500 Rams. They should still do it, leaps and bounds better than Cummins.

Proof?

Or opinion?