How safe is Manual Trans vs HSD

[Bob_Young]

Well I bought the manual transmission model today.

This question is too late; but should've been asked anyway:

Are you planning to mow with that tractor? If so, how do you engage/disengage the PTO? Do you have to depress the foot clutch to disengage? Is the foot clutch two-stage or single stage?

I know the PTO on my B7610 (HST) is engaged with the single stage foot clutch. If my tractor were gear, I'd be forced to disengage the PTO (with the foot clutch) everytime I reversed direction. Though I'm a gearhead generally, that kind of cooled me to the idea of a gear B-series...back then anyway. Don't know about the B2320.
Bob

 

[mswlogo]

This question is too late; but should've been asked anyway:

Are you planning to mow with that tractor? If so, how do you engage/disengage the PTO? Do you have to depress the foot clutch to disengage? Is the foot clutch two-stage or single stage?

I know the PTO on my B7610 (HST) is engaged with the single stage foot clutch. If my tractor were gear, I'd be forced to disengage the PTO (with the foot clutch) everytime I reversed direction. Though I'm a gearhead generally, that kind of cooled me to the idea of a gear B-series...back then anyway. Don't know about the B2320.
Bob

No mowing. But I believe the clutch will disengage the PTO.

I don't quite see why that's a big deal though.

 

[mswlogo]

By the way the dealer had me do a little test while trying out the B2320 DT.

I forget if I was in Medium or Low.

But I was in 1st gear.

The engine was idle and he said pop the clutch (no gas needed).

So I'm rolling along at a crawl and he says hit the brake.

It did ABSOLUTELY nothing. It didn't even even slow it down, it was as if I didn't even touch the brake. There was not momentum here, I was crawling like a snail. It was brute power.

I know on my BX24 with HST it would stop when crawling along like that. Only at high RPM fully engaged HST it had power. If I forgot to release brake on BX24 it would not move.

It was a little scary actually. If you panic and not hit that clutch you're in deep doo doo.

 

[Duffster]

By the way the dealer had me do a little test while trying out the B2320 DT.

I forget if I was in Medium or Low.

But I was in 1st gear.

The engine was idle and he said pop the clutch (no gas needed).

So I'm rolling along at a crawl and he says hit the brake.

It did ABSOLUTELY nothing. It didn't even even slow it down, it was as if I didn't even touch the brake. There was not momentum here, I was crawling like a snail. It was brute power.

I know on my BX24 with HST it would stop when crawling along like that. Only at high RPM fully engaged HST it had power. If I forgot to release brake on BX24 it would not move.

It was a little scary actually. If you panic and not hit that clutch you're in deep doo doo.

Why wouldn't you hit the clutch too?

 

[Bob_Young]

No mowing. But I believe the clutch will disengage the PTO.

I don't quite see why that's a big deal though.

If you need to go from a forward gear to a reverse gear, you will need to depress the clutch. If the clutch is single stage, the PTO drive will be interrupted and the implement it is driving will stop or begin to spin down. When you re-engage the clutch, it will have to start or spin up again. For each direction reversal, the engine will have to get both the tractor moving and the implement operating again imposing strain/shock on everything involved. I have to reverse direction a lot when mowing and couldn't live with this.

Same thing when you have to stop. Normally the clutch is the first thing depressed as mentioned in your safety discussion. If the clutch is single stage, the PTO drive will start winding down immediately. If you're just trying to work your way through a rough patch by stopping and starting using the clutch, the PTO will lose power everytime you stop. You'll have to shift to neutral and let the clutch out again to keep the PTO turning and implement operating while stopped.

But if you're not doing any mowing and can live with PTO power interruptions whenever you stop or reverse direction, then I guess you've got the right machine. Larger gear tractors utilize either live PTO (2-stage clutch) or independent PTO to get around this as it's a serious issue. Shocks to the PTO drive and implement from repeated engagement will take a definite toll.

BTW, what are you planning to do with the tractor? If simply grading, plowing, non-PTO tillage or pulling wagons, the gear transmission should be fine. I don't want to waste your time talking about concerns you'll never have.
Bob

 

[Reg]

Texasjohn--Nice summery of the advantages of HST

Reg--Your convoluted command of the Engish language astounds me, but here goes...
1. Your safety concerns from an analytical standpoint classify you as either a genius or a victim of over-analysis.
2. You're really a supercomputer disquised as a human; therefore us mortals will just have to rely on HST as another tool in the safety bag and not be able to perform like you.
3. I sincerely hope "a gotcha" doesn't come your way because you will never be able to live with yourself.

You do have an interesting thought about red tires, though. But, you know what they say about the chemical red dye...

Yeah, well, some or all of that.
Life experiences play a role too; e.g. I have REALLY screwed up when sky diving, but remembered what had to be done if/when it became necessary to do it - so I did.
I have recognized signs of fatigue and NOT pressed on with "just a couple or three more and we're done" I've "left it for tomorrow".

I really don't believe that "accidents happen", I believe they are CAUSED !
The more factors you anticipate and PLAN FOR the better equipped you are to deal with them.
In both up/down and down/up diving there is redundant equipment to allow for SOME level of equipment failure, but you can still get dead from inattention.

As with cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, horses, whatever.... safety is rarely about WHAT you drive, it is usually about HOW you drive.
{Horses included deliberately,,,,,,,,, that would take a LONG explanation here, but most horse people know what I mean}

 

[ike]

I started out with a gear drive wheelhorse tractor 312-8 that climbed my hills on my sand mound without any problems. Found a low hour 314-h and sold the gear drive. In my case, it was a mistake since the Eaton 11 hydro in the 314-h had a hard time with my steep hills. Wound up re-buying another Wheelhorse classic gear drive and would not consider any other garden tractor. It climbs my hills without a problem. It is however more dangerous since my wife has a hard time controlling it.

I also have a B7800 that I could not imagine without a hydro! I would think loader work with a gear machine would be tough.

 

[Bob_Young]

I really don't believe that "accidents happen", I believe they are CAUSED !
The more factors you anticipate and PLAN FOR the better equipped you are to deal with them.
...
As with cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, horses, whatever.... safety is rarely about WHAT you drive, it is usually about HOW you drive.

Amen to that

 

[mswlogo]

BTW, what are you planning to do with the tractor? If simply grading, plowing, non-PTO tillage or pulling wagons, the gear transmission should be fine. I don't want to waste your time talking about concerns you'll never have.
Bob

80% grading with box blade, 10% light loader work (more like wheel barrow work), 10% taking boat in and out.

 

[some zilch]

One thing the gear heads never think about or consider is how a gear drive limits or deprives the handicapped or disabled.

I have only automatic cars trucks and tractors because I have physical limitations that hinder my using a geared tyranny .

no one asked why you have what you have. just because you have a limitation and have found ways to still do what you need to do, doesnt mean the OP is going to do that, is in the same boat as you are, or really even has any relevance to the thread. just because some things may not work for you, doesnt mean it wont work for other people. a "gear head" doesnt need to think about how a gear drive machine may limit a handicapped person unless they themselves handicapped. i have a gear drive tractor, and i did not give one inkling of thought into how it may limit a handicapped person, as it is totally irrelevant in my case, as probably in the OP's case.

if you use automatics and they work for you, more power to you, but it should not limit anyone else in what they can have. i, myself, have limited use of my right leg after a car accident, and am no longer able to kneel down, jump, run, and have trouble with balance and climbing stairs.

i think in many cases, and HST is a safer option for many people, as it seems less and less people these day have the experiance of using a manual transmission/clutch, and the idea of simply letting off the drive pedal brings everything to a halt-no thought required. if someone doesnt understand the concept of "push the clutch/push the brake" to stop, they have no reason to be on such a machine. sometimes i wonder