3PH problem

[Soundguy]

True; but then how many hours did it work?? That is the question.?

Asked and answered. If you find a beat up tractor.. it 'worked' to get beat up like that.. took hours to accumulate that wear and those marks. You don't park a new tractor under a shed, never use it, and walk by and beat it up with a baseball bat weekly, then sand blast all the paint off, and then pour diesel in the oil, and run her with no lube weekly just so you can have a wore out beat up tractor in 40 years. When you see a 'used' looking old farm tractor, it came from 'USE' not setting under a shed. ( and for some reason.. people like to run tractors into things.. I don't think I've bought many tractors that didn't have tree 'contact' damage at leas onthe fenders, if not the nose! )

At the rate my Plastic Tractor is piling up hours this year it will be bound to last forever too. ?

Lifespan alone doesn't solely account as much for all things equally. In 60 years will you be able to sand that plastic ,paint it and have it be as good they day it was buit.. or will it be all brittle and broke. what are the chances you will be able to buy good salvage plastic for that 60 yr old machine.. how about new repop plastic for it?.. how about all those tricky funky electricals and dashes... parts gonna be available? I'm guessing no.. though could be wrong.

How many tractor farming hours do you do put on per year on your spread?

If I'm off work.. I usually am on at least one of my tractors per day. Yesterday i worked a double.. yet i still had time to put 2 hours of tractor time into my place using my naa and 3000.

I pretty much have specific uses for most of my tractors.. when that use 'comes up' it gets used. Big mowing is for the 5000 and 7610s.. trim mowing will now be handled by my 3000. ( trim mowing for ROW and field corners and causeways between my land and others occurs weekly ). 'Big' mowing.. Ie. the ballance of the 13ac is also a weekly or at most.. bi-weekly affair since we re getting rain daily here in florida.

when i move hay bales, the 850 gets used.

I'f i'm moving dirt or need general 'crane' issues, the naa or 951 gets used. ( 951 singe front wheel is great for manuvering close to buildings.. and the 5spd provides a decently low 1st gear for safety around buildings.. )

if I'm tendering trailers or plowing, the 660 gets used.

If I'm cultivating, the 541 gets used.

If I'm spreading fertalizer or seed, the 8n usually gets used. have used the 2n.. but prefer the 8n for 4 gears and position control. 2n pretty much 'sets' now.

The IC cub occasionally gets used for mowing row.. though it is doubtfull that it will get used anymore since I picked up the 3000 a couple weeks ago... or at least once i get the 3000 refurbed the cub will likely be retired to show and parade duty.

the jd-b is solely a barn setter.. just got it cuz i wanted it. Have only worked it a few times.. it was my first tractor with remote hyds, and they got used a little. it's pulled a hay ride a time or two, and has done a couple parade routes.

my allis g is solely a parade machine. i have a woods belly mower for her, but don't envision mounting it back to her.. she sets out of the sun and rain and has a good coat of wax on her at all times, plus a nice AC flag.. no more than a beauty queen now.



Hard to estimate weekly hours.. but i'd say an honest 20 hrs a week there is a tractor running at my place. that accounts for work and maintenance,etc. mind you. not a single tractor gets those hours. but rather distributed around. The 5000 and 7610s get the most.

Someone like farmwithjunk probably beats my pants off 3-4 times that if not much more since he works his machines for mowing contracts... anyone else that actually comercially works their machines likely has quite a bit of hours per day or week as well.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

So, you say 1040?? hours a year over a number of tractors. Farming your 14 acres with those kind of hours and that number of tractors they mostly are sitting.

Did you know some Plastics will still be around long after the metal on tractors has reverted to one of it's lesser energy forms. Scientific fact.

Most people realize there is a finite usable life span for almost all items if it is based on a unit of time actually worked rather than sitting.

 

[Soundguy]

So, you say 1040?? hours a year over a number of tractors. Farming your 14 acres with those kind of hours and that number of tractors they mostly are sitting.

Did you know some Plastics will still be around long after the metal on tractors has reverted to one of it's lesser energy forms. Scientific fact.

Most people realize there is a finite usable life span for almost all items if it is based on a unit of time actually worked rather than sitting.

Judging from the eroded rubber grommets and boots, and brittle faded out plastics, and dry-rotted fiberglass panels I see on the current crop of tractors.. I'd say none of them are using those nice long life plastics you talk about... If you keep paint on the metal.. it will last ... Look at the fordsons from the turn of the century. still got metal...

I'm gonna lay my money on metal for now as far as longevity goes. down the line when more durable plastics are common components and it's proven they can last 100 years with little decey..then I'll rethink my position.

You asked for hours.. i gave you hours... now your not happy? They are low.. I don't have 10 sections and 100 laborers and have a farm that would make monsanto smile. that said.. I probably get more hours per year on my machines than the aerage small estate owner.

compair those hours to the average homeowner with a new 4000$ rice and plastic and fiberglass scut parked in his shed to mow his 1 ac estate. he's likely getting even less hours than i am.. and 50 ys down the line.. i doubt he will find a replacement part.. or have a running machine... just my opinion.

even compairing straight up... hours to hours... I'm still putting my money for longevity on an older beter built more durable machine.

my ford 850 is a 55 model.. that means it's 54 years old... It has a 1-arm loader mounted to the left side that lifts 1200# round bales of hay. smokes a lil but starts right up.. I can order every nut and bolt on that tractor with just a few mouse clicks.. and take her apart and put her together using a service manual thinner than a tv guide. The machine is about 50hp and has a small footprint.. couple inches bigger than an 8n... weighs about the same iE.. 3k# range.

You'd be hard pressed to find a 'compact' sized tractor with that hp and capabilities today, then work the bajeebers out of it, fast forward 54 years and still have a machine in good working condition. oh.. and your budget is 4000$.. heck.. lets cut that to 3400$ and drop the hp down from small utility range to compact range and say 33hp and substitute my 55 ford 660... heck.. even better...2150$ and lets use my 54 NAA.. same lift capacity on all 3.. same basic chores can be completed with all 3 save high pto loads that the 850 will have a leg up on.

Where's that new 2150$ 33hp cut with loader with 1200# capacity that's going to be in good working order in 55 ys. My unit has 55psi oil pressure and starts on 1 rev of the starter. original tinwork too. Where's that tractor at.. i want to go buy one! ( didn't think so! )

as for the lame duck argument of time worked... put them up face to face.. a modern tractor with low work hours compaired to an old work tractor with low hours.. then it comes down to materials, durability and craftsmanship. i'll take bold proven designs with metal and heavy cast that were made to be continously renawable over light weight lifespan limited designes made of plastic and rubber and fiberglass.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

As stated before almost all things have a finite life span. In fact manufactures will even take some items and test them to destruction. On many items we base the service life on hours worked which seems a reasonable time frame and much more definitive than years of sitting!

You have made a statement on hours used but the actually hours on your tractors does not seem to be stated!
[If my recall is correct did you not state that one of your old old tractors had 560 hours on it when you picked it up???]

In todays Dollars what did that tractor of 50 some years ago cost new?

In the last 50 years hasn't there been some significant improvements made to the casting and machining tools of industry as well as to the metals that are used??

As for plastics I have a 24 year old plastic skinned car sitting in the back yard. There are no signs of any plastic deterioration although some of the supporting steel frame work does show rust! A PU truck of mine of the same vintage was sold after only ten years due to rust problems. The fenders, floor panels and box reverted to a lower energy state leaving only air between items hauled and the outside world.

As with most things the world progresses and time goes by but no matter how hard we try and stop the passing of years it is a futile effort. Time marches on! I can buy a 55 Chevy with three on the tree and a very nice little 26? V8 in it but I sure will not be 16 again even when sitting behind the wheel.

And; as time marches on so to do the items we design and manufacture keep pace utilizing new knowledge and materials.

For real heavy simple tractor construction perhaps we should all be working the tractors of the 1920's. They meet all the requirements you deem indispensable.

And then the big question; Why aren't all the Farmers using the tractors of the 1950's or prior??

 

[Soundguy]

10ys and rusty.. I'd say there was some salt involved.

24ys still aint 40-50-60 years.

casting technology? sure.. we learned how to make castings lighter so that they are just barely adequate and can usually make it past theri warranty untill their engineered service life is up so we can sell you a new one.

As for total real hours.. hard to say.. some of my machines have no proofmeter and i can only guess at their lifestyle based on age marks and condition.

some that have proofmeters stopped 'proofing' long ago with many thousands of hours already racked up.

I do have some (3) with intact and operational original proofmeters showing what I believe to be their real hours.. probab;y 8000-9000 hrs on those meters.

wouls have to research original purchase prices on those machines and then compair inflation to give you that info.. I frankly don't have the time.. but if it rocks your boat.. go for it. I posted all the model numbers.. I'm sure the info is out there.

not sure how you will then compair that to my purchase price though. might have to reverse hash the inflation rate to see what 'discount' I purchased them at in 40's and 50's and 60's money.

your bland example of 20's tractor technology falls short of the standards I spoke of.. but it's obviouse you chose that on purpose.

by the late 30's and early 40's tractor technology took a big step forward. 3pt hitches.. live ptio's.. 2 stage clutches,a nd eventually a powershift tranny by the time you were deep into the 50's.. plenty of more examples.

soundguy

As stated before almost all things have a finite life span. In fact manufactures will even take some items and test them to destruction. On many items we base the service life on hours worked which seems a reasonable time frame and much more definitive than years of sitting!

You have made a statement on hours used but the actually hours on your tractors does not seem to be stated!

In todays Dollars what did that tractor of 50 some years ago cost new?

In the last 50 years hasn't there been some significant improvements made to the casting and marching tools of industry as well as to the metals that are used??

As for plastics I have a 24 year old plastic skinned car sitting in the back yard. There are no signs of any plastic deterioration although some of the supporting steel frame work does show rust! A PU truck of mine of the same vintage was sold after only ten years due to rust problems.

As with most things the world progresses and time goes by but no matter how hard we try and stop the passing of years it is a futile effort. Time marches on!

And; as time marches on so to do the items we design and manufacture keep pace utilizing new knowledge and materials.

For real heavy simple tractor construction perhaps we should all be working the tractors of the 1920's. They meet all the requirements you deem indispensable.

And then the big question; Why aren't all the Farmers using the tractors of the 1950's or prior??

 

[sandman2234]

I tend to agree with Soundguy, as I have a 1989 JD2555 with about 7,000 hours on the meter. It runs like a top, although it does have a few problems such as steering parts that are worn that could use addressing. It was worked every day till the day I purchased it and I often wonder if they went into it for any reason, due to just how well it runs. I see my neighbor with his late model tractors, sweating every time his hour meter clicks over another few hours, because he worries about the lifespan of his new tractor. I watched his last one, and with about 1000 hours on it, it was more worn than mine with 7 times the hours. His was garage kept, mine used to be. His new one has not gotten into the barn yet, and the dash already shows signs of moisture in the electronic dash, which makes me wonder the lifespan of that part. Guess time will tell...
David from jax

 

[Egon]

I do get confused, I go back home to Alberta and nary a farmer appears to be using a 50's era tractor.

Here I go over to the Valley and nary a 50's era tractor seems to be in evidence on the fields.

Is it that these Farmers do not realize those 50's tractors will last longer and can be bought much cheaper than the articulated tractors they seem to favor. Are they just poor businessmen??

Or are they Business men using tools that make them a living! [If they can sell the produce]

 

[Soundguy]

You are not comparing apples to apples. if you are talking large articulated tractors you know you can't compair them across the board to mid century compact sized machines.. you are being perversly obtuse on this issue.

Down here ( where there are no frozen moose ) where people still farm pieces of land smaller than cities.. it's common to see older 'compact' sized tractors.

I'll leave it at that.

It's widely known you have complete disreguard for older technology and will argue to any point to further that notion.... no sense in filling that bottomless hole any longer in this thread.

soundguy

I do get confused, I go back home to Alberta and nary a farmer appears to be using a 50's era tractor.

Here I go over to the Valley and nary a 50's era tractor seems to be in evidence on the fields.

Is it that these Farmers do not realize those 50's tractors will last longer and can be bought much cheaper than the articulated tractors they seem to favor. Are they just poor businessmen??

Or are they Business men using tools that make them a living! [If they can sell the produce]

 

[Redneck in training]

The shed has to be shaped like a pyramid.....and the tractor will last forever

Keep your razor blades there and they will stay sharp forever.

 

[Egon]

It's widely known you have complete disregard for older technology and will argue to any point to further that notion.... no sense in filling that bottomless hole any longer in this thread.

Now again you have misinterpret things Soundguy. I like old tractors as they remind me of my youth. That doesn't mean I would like one as a working tractor.

I also realize that the old tractors did have parts that did wear out and need replacement. That is they did not run forever as you would have people believe. They did have finite usable life spans based on hours actually worked in the fields just as the newer tractors of today have.

As to your arbitrarily set span of 50 years before a tractor can be considered durable is rather an ambiguous time frame. It holds well for those tractors that have few hours on them. For the Farmers making a living on the farm it means they will never have a reliable tractor[by your standards] as most will wear out their machines in much less time and replace them.

Where I now live there are lots of old 8N's and massey Ferguson tractors. On the way to the Play Farm I could probably count at least a dozen of them. It also becomes very evident that these tractors spent most of their lives sitting. They haul out a few logs for firewood and push snow off the driveway in the winter. If I go over to the valley which is a farming area these type of tractors are not evident and definitely not seen on the fields.

There are very different perspectives and needs between the Hobby Farmer and the Farmer making his living actually Farming.

I can assure you that once the Frozen Moose is thawed and properly prepared it is very delicious indeed.

Have you got a recipe for fried Chiggers or do you just scratch em?

Now have a good day and remember to recycle your plastic as they say it lasts forever in the landfill!