viability of building a 30-40 hp electric utility tractor?

[Coyote machine]

If we end up with $5 to $10 /gal diesel fuel prices we will have a lot more serious issues than what to power our tractors with. I do not doubt we could see around $5 diesel again at some future time but with the economy going as it is,or should I say not going the way it isn't our country is in for more and more drastic changes in the way we may have to live.
I'm all for farms becoming more efficient and our use of fuels of all kinds being used more efficiently and attempting to find ways to squeeze more btu's out of all forms of energy.
I read an article recently about how those working on battery storage mediums like lithium ion, etc. are struggling to get to the goal of a battery that will cost around $1000 by 2012 that will be light enough and powerful enough and be able to take and hold a charge long enough to make it really viable.
2012, emphasis on 12!
We are competing against places like Korea and other Asian rim countries that have been at it a long time; and we hope to be out in front.
I wish us good luck. As one person mentioned about batteries there are a bunch of factors that make current technologies inefficient and costly.
Until someone comes up with a lightweight, cost effective new approach using different materials/technology we are stuck with what is currently available.

candersen10,
I wish you success in your attempt to beat thermodynamics and physics and whatever else stands in front of you!
Somebody has to be first to the finish line in all of our challenges that lie at our feet.

 

[candersen10]

if you are going to build a battery powered tractor why not just build a coal burning one and cut out the middle man?

Sizzami, only 49% of America's electricity comes from coal. This is only counting grid sourced electricity and leaves nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal, biomass/biogas, and several other current existing technologies as potential energy sources. Given technological advancements and eventual coal shortages (many of the reserves that are claimed to provide us with energy for over 200 years are actually extremely difficult to access/mine) it is inevitable that we will move towards renewable energy produced at efficient power plant centers in the near future (or perhaps at a smaller local scale). RPS legislation is currently in place in 33 states which stipulates that utilities generate a certain percentage of their power from renewable resources. My point is that while coal may currently provide a large portion of US energy generation it is nonetheless by no means the only source of energy and to suggest that any battery powered tractor will just burn coal suggests a lack of understanding of the complete make up of the grid system or where the grid system is heading.

Hydrogen seems by far the most appealing technology in terms of refilling rather than recharging a battery, yet the low energy content per space used and the low levels of efficiency in terms of converting water through hydrolysis into hydrogen and then compressing the hydrogen in order to efficiently transport it also pose challenges.

Clearly, the key to the alternative energy tractor is simply a viable source of cheap energy.

What is scary is that now nearly every input that American farmers depend on to sustain high yields (nitrogren fertilizer (95% of which is derived from natural gas), tractors, transport, petroleum derived chemicals, and many other things) is derived from oil. An electric or hydrogen tractor seems at the very least like a wise thing to think about given that oil prices will rise in the not very distant future.

Sorry to be thinking out loud on this forum and I apologize if I have offended anyone. I just think that mainstream businesses rather than fringe organic farmers will have to start pursuing new approaches to farming's oil input problem on a much larger scale. This will require considering many different technologies. Alternative energy tractors seem like a wise place to start.

 

[dangerdoc]

Needs:
- 4 wheel drive
- 30-40HP
- Under $15K
- Run for 8 hours on a charge
- full recharge over night
- ROPS
- Loader bucket
- 3 point hitch (front and back)
- PTO (Front and back)

Does anyone think such a project would be possible? I find it enormously frustrating that I'm just running down my fuel gauge every day and think that farming will have to start heading in this direction (or maybe hydrogen).

The short answer is we do not have the battery technology at this time to make such a project practicle.

Things may change in the future. New chemical batteries are getting more energy dense every year. The biggest problem with them is that they are very expensive and have limitted recharging cycle life. Lithium is only good for about 500 recharges. If you are recharging daily, recycling batteries becomes an outragiously expensive proposition.

There is a company called Eestor. They are developing a supercapacitor that could make your electric tractor both posible and practical. The problem is that they are very secretive and two years late with product. In the next year, they will either change the world or disappear with other countless vapor-ware promising companies of the past.

 

[candersen10]

The short answer is we do not have the battery technology at this time to make such a project practicle.

Things may change in the future. New chemical batteries are getting more energy dense every year. The biggest problem with them is that they are very expensive and have limitted recharging cycle life. Lithium is only good for about 500 recharges. If you are recharging daily, recycling batteries becomes an outragiously expensive proposition.

There is a company called Eestor. They are developing a supercapacitor that could make your electric tractor both posible and practical. The problem is that they are very secretive and two years late with product. In the next year, they will either change the world or disappear with other countless vapor-ware promising companies of the past.

An alternative to the 8 hour battery might be multiple lower capacity batteries that could be easily removed via some sort of hydraulic lift and then recharged from a base station.

You are certainly correct in that battery technology still remains the critical shortcoming.

 

[BobRip]

Sizzami, only 49% of America's electricity comes from coal. This is only counting grid sourced electricity and leaves nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal, biomass/biogas, and several other current existing technologies as potential energy sources. Given technological advancements and eventual coal shortages (many of the reserves that are claimed to provide us with energy for over 200 years are actually extremely difficult to access/mine) it is inevitable that we will move towards renewable energy produced at efficient power plant centers in the near future (or perhaps at a smaller local scale). RPS legislation is currently in place in 33 states which stipulates that utilities generate a certain percentage of their power from renewable resources. My point is that while coal may currently provide a large portion of US energy generation it is nonetheless by no means the only source of energy and to suggest that any battery powered tractor will just burn coal suggests a lack of understanding of the complete make up of the grid system or where the grid system is heading.

Hydrogen seems by far the most appealing technology in terms of refilling rather than recharging a battery, yet the low energy content per space used and the low levels of efficiency in terms of converting water through hydrolysis into hydrogen and then compressing the hydrogen in order to efficiently transport it also pose challenges.

Clearly, the key to the alternative energy tractor is simply a viable source of cheap energy.

What is scary is that now nearly every input that American farmers depend on to sustain high yields (nitrogren fertilizer (95% of which is derived from natural gas), tractors, transport, petroleum derived chemicals, and many other things) is derived from oil. An electric or hydrogen tractor seems at the very least like a wise thing to think about given that oil prices will rise in the not very distant future.

Sorry to be thinking out loud on this forum and I apologize if I have offended anyone. I just think that mainstream businesses rather than fringe organic farmers will have to start pursuing new approaches to farming's oil input problem on a much larger scale. This will require considering many different technologies. Alternative energy tractors seem like a wise place to start.

Good analysis. It's very scary. I have hope for the new solar cells which look to be much cheaper, windmills, wave energy, and energy saving devices like LEDs. All look promising. I also hope we start building nuke plants again. As energy gets more expensive we will find solutions. Hopefully people like you will get a jump on solutions and make the transition easier. The world has a history of changing energy sources (wood to coal to oil to nuke to whatever) when a crisis demands it. Most people don't enjoy living through a crisis.

 

[have_blue]

Things are starting to move, and when American ingenuity and competition kick in, they will explode:

Nissan Leaf Electric Car | Nissan USA Official Site

Tractors don't need light, compact batteries like cars do. So they have a huge advantage.

 

[dangerdoc]

Things are starting to move, and when American ingenuity and competition kick in, they will explode:

Nissan Leaf Electric Car | Nissan USA Official Site

Tractors don't need light, compact batteries like cars do. So they have a huge advantage.

It is somewhere between sad and humorous that when you talk about American ingenuity, you link to a Japanese company

 

[jas67]

Things are starting to move, and when American ingenuity and competition kick in, they will explode:

Nissan Leaf Electric Car | Nissan USA Official Site

Tractors don't need light, compact batteries like cars do. So they have a huge advantage.

So, I click on this link, and am greeted with little animated thingy that says "Zero Emissions - Electric, any questions?"

Yeh, I got a question, how does this car guarantee that the electricity used to charge it was produced in a way that produced zero emissions?

 

[BobRip]

So, I click on this link, and am greeted with little animated thingy that says "Zero Emissions - Electric, any questions?"

Yeh, I got a question, how does this car guarantee that the electricity used to charge it was produced in a way that produced zero emissions?

It cannot. Also the materials used to make the car were probably not produced with zero pollution equipment. The factory the car was built in probably did not use zero pollution energy. And so forth.

However, there is less pollution as power produced from central power plants is less polluting than that from a mobile engine.

 

[BrentD]

Good analysis. It's very scary. I have hope for the new solar cells which look to be much cheaper, windmills, wave energy, and energy saving devices like LEDs. All look promising. I also hope we start building nuke plants again. As energy gets more expensive we will find solutions. Hopefully people like you will get a jump on solutions and make the transition easier. The world has a history of changing energy sources (wood to coal to oil to nuke to whatever) when a crisis demands it. Most people don't enjoy living through a crisis.

Check out PolyWell Fusion. The concept is Dr. Robert Bussard's modification on the Farnsworth Fusor. Dr. Bussard passed away in 2007 but the company he founded, EMC^2 (Energy Matter Conversion Corporation), lives on and is being actively funded by the navy. They claim they will know in 18 - 24 months whether or not Polywell Fusion will be a viable commercial energy source. If it works, the reactors will eventually run a boron-proton fusion reaction that produces no nuclear waste bi-products, has no danger of meltdown or explosion, and produces electricity directly from the reaction (by decellerating alpha particles) rather than boiling water to run steam turbines making it as close to a 100% efficient mass to energy (in the form of electricity) conversion as you can get. (see Emc2 Fusion Development Corporation and Talk-Polywell.org :: Index for more info)