michellesc7
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 115
- Location
- Western SC and Eastern SC
- Tractor
- John Deere 5410 4wd Cab w/ loader, Mahindra 6500 4wd Q/A FEL, John Deere 4120 4wd w/ FEL & John Deere 1050 4wd
When tractor won't go into certain gears
- Thread starter 485didriver
- Start date
- Views: 31816
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Michelle, I have the 485 DI. Same issue, though. Dunno if that offset wrench will work with mine, the way the two bolt heads are so close together. Might be worth trying, though!
skipmarcy
Veteran Member
Looks like a typical distributor wrench should handle that bolt, especially if it is 9/16" - KD tools or Lisle tools are available everywhere and have made the various distributor wrenches for decades. One for old GM is 9/16". Another option would be a boxed crow's foot wrench in 3/8" drive, I have Mac & Snap-On but have seen many offbrands too.
Curious about the history of these tractors your discussing. Were the 3 digit models (485DI,575DI) the predecessors to the 4 digit models (4505DI,5005DI)? And are the current 25 series pretty much the replacement for these? Thanks
AchingBack
Elite Member
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Issue I had was not being able to get any wrench that was boxed around the horizontal bolt (see bottom pic on first page of the thread), because the large vertical bolt keeps me from getting around it. Then, when I DID get it loose with an open faced wrench, it couldn't back all the way out b/c of the vertical bolt. Sigh. 
So it looks as if I'll have to remove the one vertical bolt regardless, to get the horizontal bolt out.
So it looks as if I'll have to remove the one vertical bolt regardless, to get the horizontal bolt out.LAWALLSTRACTOR
Veteran Member
I would torch the top off of that bolt, and work it out with a pair of needle nose vice grips and maybe replace it with a shorter bolt, if you can.
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Updated as of 8 am this morning: an offset box wrench won't work on my 485 DI, the fit between the two bolt heads is just too tight. I eventually DID get the 3/4" bolt loosened (the vertical bolt I describe, from the hydraulic control) and unscrewed it as far as it would go, but it won't come all the way out because of the top tranny cover. It DID come far enough out that it no longer interfered with the 9/16" bolt on the transmission plate, so that suckered me into thinking that I had this thing beat. But.... the 9/16" bolt is too long and will not come out due to interference from the hydraulic control. So the only way to get the top cover off is to follow the instructions in the manual, which are to remove the entire rear (the lift arms, 3 pt setup, hydraulic reservoir) and THEN take that one %$#@ bolt out. Local guy quoted me 10 book hours and the cost of parts, which will end up roughly $800 per his "rough estimate." Joy.
My brother is an auto mechanic, and he is willing to come up next weekend and work on it with me. We might just try to get this thing broken down, though until it's completely disassembled, I won't even know if I can fix the issue (the local guy tells me over the phone that it's likely the counter shaft, and that the reason that 4th didn't work was that it originally had a couple teeth break and then progressed to the point that I lost all my low range). That part lists for over $200.00 alone.
Anyone that's done this kind of stuff before have any input, whether good, bad, or indifferent? Anyone wanna talk me down from the ledge here? Anyone?
My brother is an auto mechanic, and he is willing to come up next weekend and work on it with me. We might just try to get this thing broken down, though until it's completely disassembled, I won't even know if I can fix the issue (the local guy tells me over the phone that it's likely the counter shaft, and that the reason that 4th didn't work was that it originally had a couple teeth break and then progressed to the point that I lost all my low range). That part lists for over $200.00 alone.
Anyone that's done this kind of stuff before have any input, whether good, bad, or indifferent? Anyone wanna talk me down from the ledge here? Anyone?
skipmarcy
Veteran Member
Don't know anything about your particular model of tractor but if you're getting ready to do some internal hardparts repair/replacement you just need to be prepared. In my opinion $200 give or take in parts isn't too bad, even $500 for a good-running tractor isn't too bad. One word of advice - if you're going to do a major split be sure and do it on a good concrete surface. The major sections of a tractor are very heavy and you will have to support part of it on good jack stands and the section you roll away will have to do so smoothly on a good floor jack. When I do a major split I usually get the oil(s) draining first then start disassembly on misc. stuff and let the oil drain as long as possible before making the split, overnite if possible. Makes for a slightly cleaner work area. Usually the most difficult part is mating the 2 major sections back up - there are usually shafts to align while rolling the heavy pieces back together - a helper is nice here but I've done several by myself. Don't cut corners while inside - fix whatever you see bad while you've got it apart, check bearings, gears etc. good. Most bearings can be had from your local NAPA store at better prices, get the numbers off the old bearings and races, same for seals. Gears, shafts, syncronizers etc. will have to come from a dealer. Sounds like you have a manual for the tractor - study it before you start. The job will be a pain but you will get thru it and should have a fully functional tractor when thru and you will gain self-satisfaction from doing the repair yourself. Go for it !!!
This won't help with the lost low range, but the "no 4th gear" thing happens with the older Mahindra's. More often than not you do have 4th gear, the tranny just won't go into it easily.
I had the same "4th gear" problem. I pulled the cotter pin at the base of the gear shifter, puller up the metal/rubber washer, spring and the cover at the base of the shifter and sprayed penetrating oil all around where the shifter goes into the transmission. Reassembled and I have 4th gear. You have to go all the way to the right and up to slide into it. Actually, you have to bump the shifter into it. Hope this helps.........
F350
I had the same "4th gear" problem. I pulled the cotter pin at the base of the gear shifter, puller up the metal/rubber washer, spring and the cover at the base of the shifter and sprayed penetrating oil all around where the shifter goes into the transmission. Reassembled and I have 4th gear. You have to go all the way to the right and up to slide into it. Actually, you have to bump the shifter into it. Hope this helps.........
F350
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Okay, skipmarcy, you've officially flagged me off from trying this!
Couple of questions for you, though, while you're sharing information! In looking at the cross section of the gears and tranny, it makes me wonder if I were having an issue with the low or high gear shift cam if THAT could not be keeping it from engaging in the low range-or if one of the shifters in there could be the issue, rather than the counter shaft. Any experience with this? Seems it'd be a much simpler fix, if that were the issue.
Also, just making sure I got this right: the only way this will get fixed is if I split the tractor? Uhm.... not happening with just me and my auto mechanic brother. Especially for a weekend job!
350, thanks for that tidbit, that'll give me something to do tomorrow!!
Couple of questions for you, though, while you're sharing information! In looking at the cross section of the gears and tranny, it makes me wonder if I were having an issue with the low or high gear shift cam if THAT could not be keeping it from engaging in the low range-or if one of the shifters in there could be the issue, rather than the counter shaft. Any experience with this? Seems it'd be a much simpler fix, if that were the issue.
Also, just making sure I got this right: the only way this will get fixed is if I split the tractor? Uhm.... not happening with just me and my auto mechanic brother. Especially for a weekend job!
350, thanks for that tidbit, that'll give me something to do tomorrow!!
LAWALLSTRACTOR
Veteran Member
I recently replaced a gear in the transmission of an IH 300. (Some similarities to your tractor) The hydraulic case had to be removed, and the tractor split to replace the gear, and while I was in there I did a little welding and machining on the shift lever and rails,to tighten up the slop, which I think caused the loss of the teeth in the first place. The job took me about 25 hrs start to finish, and with parts the customers bill was just over $2000.00. The tractor is now working well and the customer seems pleased with it. This is just an idea of what you may be looking at.
tommu56
Elite Member
I didn't think of cutting the bolt out but after its out can you replace it with a socket head cap screw?
I still think I would thin (grind) the bolt head that is in the way to get the one you need out and replace it with a new bolt after you find and fix the other problem.
tom
I still think I would thin (grind) the bolt head that is in the way to get the one you need out and replace it with a new bolt after you find and fix the other problem.
tom
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
OY! So that begs the question: at what point is it logically NOT worth fixing the tractor? What would a 485 DI bring these days, assuming I got this fixed and it was back (actually better) like when I bought it? If the tractor is worth, lets say for example, 6K, and I end up spending $2500 or so on it, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense!
LAWALLSTRACTOR
Veteran Member
My customer spent that on a 1950's vintage International 300 and this tractor is used on a farm and worked every day. He paid $2000.00 for the tractor and $2100.00 to fix it and now thinks he has a very serviceable tractor.
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Well, what I keep thinking is that it's not worth much at all if it's not functional in the low range. I know I need to fix it, just hating that my $800 estimate might wind up more than twice that much!!
skipmarcy
Veteran Member
You'll never know what it is or what it will cost guessing what's wrong - you have to tear into it to know for sure. With tremendous luck it could be a shift fork or something similar that doesn't require a split. As far as what the tractor is worth, right now it's what it's worth to you. Assuming you repair the thing properly it might run for another 20 or 30 years just dandy. If you're not prepared to spend the money once you get it apart though, it will be a big waste, it would be better to sell it now - most people don't like to buy "basket jobs". Sounds like you need to go ahead and tear it down far enough to remove the top trans cover for inspection - if it looks too scary from there slap it back together and get rid of it while it still moves under it's own power.
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
Well, I don't think I'd want to buy one that was inop, so I won't do that to the next guy. Just going through contortions b/c I'm probably about to sell my larger place and won't be needing it, so the frustration is that it's just more $$ that I won't be seeing again. Such is life, right?
Is it a huge deal to remove and then replace the hydraulic reservoir/lift arms? Things that have to articulate "down in there" that require some secret knowledge to do properly? That way, I could open up the transmission cover on top without splitting the tractor, which would be my major non-starter.
LAWALLSTRACTOR
Veteran Member
No particular magic to removing the cover, just common sense mechanics.
OP
485didriver
Bronze Member
When you say cover, which cover do you mean? The hydraulic reservoir, or the top transmission plate? I honestly believe I could take off the entire %$#@ hydraulics reservoir faster than getting that plate off! I may just be stupid, but based on the length of that 9/16" bolt, either I'd have to cut or weld it off, or I wouldn't get that plate off there without totally disassembling the hydraulics and lift arms. If you have another plan, or knowledge of how to get around it (see pics) please tell me.
