Bottom plow width vs rear tire width

[peter_vii]

Hi there,

I'm a plowing newbie. So be gentle...

I'm thinking about buying 3 pt 3x16" plow for my JD 5083E with
18.9x30 rear tires.

My question is: Does the cut width need be bigger than the rear tire
width? Do I need narrower tires or wider bottoms?

Since the rear tires are wider and will be going in the previous furrow,
should they be narrower than the furrow width?

Any comments from people who actually plowed with 16" bottoms and wider
tires would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You're fine with the tires you have. A 16" plow cuts a 16" swath, but moves it over 18" to 20". So the open furrow is wider than 16". I plowed for years with 14" (3X14") plows behind a tractor with 16.9X30's NEver an issue.....

 

[peter_vii]

Thank you very much. I'm going to buy that 16" bottom plow.

 

[art]

I've seen 20.8-38 tires in a 16" furrow before and can only second Farm with Junks recommendation.

 

[alltoys]

Hope I can add a couple more questions about plowing.

How is the plow measured?

I find with my 2 bottom plow I can't move the arms over far enough to get an even cut. At most the inside plow will cut 4-5 inches where as the second cuts a full width. I also welded in plow shears in front of the plow to help cut the sod I find it works better than the colter that was on it.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Hope I can add a couple more questions about plowing.

How is the plow measured?

I find with my 2 bottom plow I can't move the arms over far enough to get an even cut. At most the inside plow will cut 4-5 inches where as the second cuts a full width. I also welded in plow shears in front of the plow to help cut the sod I find it works better than the colter that was on it.

Done CORRECTLY, you DON'T adjust the plow to fit the tractor so much as you adjust the tractor to fit the plow. If the lead bottom is tucked in behind the rear wheel, you need to set the track width of the tractor out to a wider position. The top link should trail almost straight behind the tractor in line with direction of travel. If you're shifting the plow to one side, you're NOT lined up on the DRAFT LINE of the plow, causing uneven pull to one side.

Also sounds as if possibly your coulters weren't adjusted correctly and/or were worn beyond servicable limits.

Plows are measured in width of cut (per each bottom) The easiest way to measure one is to throw a tape measure across the frame. Measure from identical points on the beams. (ie inside to inside)

 

[peter_vii]

I plowed 8 acres this weekend, went too deep in few spots but
3 bottom 16" plow was all my JD5083E (65 HP) could handle, in some moist
spots I had to lift it up a bit.

Tire tracks on my tractor are 6.5' outside to outside, about 5'
inside. The plow covered the tracks nicely leaving no tracks.

I dropped the left side of the plow 6" with the link adjustment
on the 3pt by lifting the right side. When in the furrow, the plow was
more less horizontal.

When I went to about 5" deep, the soil was rolling over perfectly
at 3.5 mph and 1500 RPM. Deeper than that I had to increase the RPMs...

 

[Duffster]

I plowed 8 acres this weekend, went too deep in few spots but
3 bottom 16" plow was all my JD5083E (65 HP) could handle, in some moist
spots I had to lift it up a bit.

Tire tracks on my tractor are 6.5' outside to outside, about 5'
inside. The plow covered the tracks nicely leaving no tracks.

I dropped the left side of the plow 6" with the link adjustment
on the 3pt by lifting the right side. When in the furrow, the plow was
more less horizontal.

When I went to about 5" deep, the soil was rolling over perfectly
at 3.5 mph and 1500 RPM. Deeper than that I had to increase the RPMs...

Why would you only plow at 1500 rpm's?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Why would you only plow at 1500 rpm's?

That's where I plow with my MF150. No need to run WFO. Peak torque is right about there. I adjust ground speed with gearing. (4-1/2 to 5 mph) The engine doesn't even labor at that rpm. Why blast the engine at rpms way beyond what is needed? I can plow an acre on 3/4 gallon of fuel. Wide open, fuel economy drops off by a BUNCH.

 

[peter_vii]

Why would you only plow at 1500 rpm's?

To go at 3.5 mph. Why? What RPMs, speed are you using?

I had few big boulders I did out in the process, going faster did not
help turning of soil and going at 3.5mph things were more controllable.

 

[Duffster]

That's where I plow with my MF150. No need to run WFO. Peak torque is right about there. I adjust ground speed with gearing. (4-1/2 to 5 mph) The engine doesn't even labor at that rpm. Why blast the engine at rpms way beyond what is needed? I can plow an acre on 3/4 gallon of fuel. Wide open, fuel economy drops off by a BUNCH.

To each their own I suppose.

To go at 3.5 mph. Why? What RPMs, speed are you using?

I had few big boulders I did out in the process, going faster did not
help turning of soil and going at 3.5mph things were more controllable.

Just seems odd to me I guess.

I would use my revs with a taller gear/bigger plow.

 

[Coolnorth]

That's where I plow with my MF150. No need to run WFO. Peak torque is right about there. I adjust ground speed with gearing. (4-1/2 to 5 mph) The engine doesn't even labor at that rpm. Why blast the engine at rpms way beyond what is needed? I can plow an acre on 3/4 gallon of fuel. Wide open, fuel economy drops off by a BUNCH.

I would have to say the same as I've been learning about my tractor this year in combination with my (new to me) 2 bottom plow. Unfortunately, I don't have enough working gears to fine tune the process, but in 1st gear (about 2.5 mph) at about 1500 RPM, the governor barely has to work to fuel the engine. My fuel consumption is closer to 7/8 gal/hr, but I'm running an old, abused F series engine.

There's always something to be said if the operator isn't screaming the engine wide open, mostly because you can still hear enough to say something!

 

[HCJtractor]

Thank you very much. I'm going to buy that 16" bottom plow.

What kind of plow are you going to purchase? New or used? Send some pictures! I am looking for the same size.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

To each their own I suppose.



Just seems odd to me I guess.

I would use my revs with a taller gear/bigger plow.

I'm not one to be proned to be deliberately wasteful, especially so when there's NOTHING gained.

 

[peter_vii]

What kind of plow are you going to purchase? New or used? Send some pictures! I am looking for the same size.

I bought an old Oliver plow with spring resets. Online ad, I paid $425.
It is in a very good shape. Looks like new. It is very heavy plow, the top square beam is 4"x4" or 3"x3", lots of steel was used to build this one.

Some people recommended 15HP per bottom but from my very limited experience
it all depends on the plow (12"-18"), the tractor and the soil conditions.
20-25HP/bottom is probably on the safe side. My tractor is over 8000lb with
the loader and stone fork bucket but this Oliver 3 bottoms took all the juice
out of its 65 HP in some wetter spots. It did however trip nicely on 1'+
stones/boulders. The largest boulder was over 4 ft wide.

I would not want to pull 4 bottoms in my area with less than 80-90 HP.
Also, buy a plow with resets.

I'll post some pictures once I figure out how to do it: -(

 

[Duffster]

I'm not one to be proned to be deliberately wasteful, especially so when there's NOTHING gained.

I guess I was looking at it from a different mindset. The only thing we plow is sod that has been tracked on, usually when wet, for several years and is dang tough plowing and wouldn't easily be done at 2/3 or 3/4 throttle.

 

[HCJtractor]

Yeah Peter, pictures are tough for me also, but there are some posts that walk you through it. I need to get my 14 year old daughter to assist her aging dad. Some times in this electronic, text messaging, digital age, I feel kinda like a dinosaur. I remember when a blackberry was something I would pick for my Grandmom to make a pie!

By the way, I see some nice plows online. Did you have it shipped freight to you? If so, how did that work out. What were the details. I see things online that tempt me, but just have never been sure of how to get it here.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I guess I was looking at it from a different mindset. The only thing we plow is sod that has been tracked on, usually when wet, for several years and is dang tough plowing and wouldn't easily be done at 2/3 or 3/4 throttle.

As I said, the torque peak is around 1500rpm. That's where work is done at it's most efficient point. I still pull the plow as fast as it's meant to operate by using the correct gear. Wind the rpms up to full song and you'll gain absolutely NOTHING. In turn, you LOOSE fuel efficiency. As an example, I plowed 25 acres of alfalfa sod ground last fall. You aren't likely to find plowing conditions much tougher than our clay soil with tough, deep alfalfa roots. The tractor just cruises @ 1500 rpm and gains NOTHING as far as power or "ease" by winding up the engine to excessive rpms.

And it isn't just that particular tractor. While farming for near 40 years, every tractor I owned had a "sweet spot" right around 1500 to 1700 rpm where they ran best. There are a few later model tractors that have smaller cubic inch engines that operate at high rpms than may need to be blasted to get decent power. Personally, I'd shy away from them. It stands to reason an engine that makes it's peak power at a lower rpm would last longer over the long haul relative to an engine that produces the same hp at a much higher rpm.

It's been my observation over the years that if/when a tractor has to be run at maximum rpms the engine has to offer to pull a plow at a reasonable speed, the plow is probably a little too much for that tractor to begin with.

 

[Duffster]

As I said, the torque peak is around 1500rpm. That's where work is done at it's most efficient point. I still pull the plow as fast as it's meant to operate by using the correct gear. Wind the rpms up to full song and you'll gain absolutely NOTHING. In turn, you LOOSE fuel efficiency. As an example, I plowed 25 acres of alfalfa sod ground last fall. You aren't likely to find plowing conditions much tougher than our clay soil with tough, deep alfalfa roots. The tractor just cruises @ 1500 rpm and gains NOTHING as far as power or "ease" by winding up the engine to excessive rpms.

And it isn't just that particular tractor. While farming for near 40 years, every tractor I owned had a "sweet spot" right around 1500 to 1700 rpm where they ran best. There are a few later model tractors that have smaller cubic inch engines that operate at high rpms than may need to be blasted to get decent power. Personally, I'd shy away from them. It stands to reason an engine that makes it's peak power at a lower rpm would last longer over the long haul relative to an engine that produces the same hp at a much higher rpm.

It's been my observation over the years that if/when a tractor has to be run at maximum rpms the engine has to offer to pull a plow at a reasonable speed, the plow is probably a little too much for that tractor to begin with.

If that was the case why wouldn't the rev limit just be set at 1500?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

If that was the case why wouldn't the rev limit just be set at 1500?

Not EVERY job you do with a tractor is always about power or maximum efficiency. Simple things like running down the road at maximum available speed would be very limited if you couldn't rev out the engine. PTO speeds may require operation at or above peak torque points. Not every tractor has it's peak torque point specifically at 1500 rpm. Like I said in the earlier post, many of the newer, smaller engines today are meant to be operated at higher rpms in order to compensate for fewer cubic inches (relative to what was common on older tractors)

These days it's very UNcommon for a tractors owners manual to list specifics on plowing or heavy tillage. That's especially true in the case of tractors that would be considered "smaller". Back when just about every tractor model produced was likely to have a plow hung on it at some point, manuals would give specific info on plowing. In just about every case I know of, manufacturers would recommend operating engines somewhere near peak torque rpms while plowing, which is generally NOT full throttle. That was for a litany of reasons, not least of which was maximum engine life and maximum fuel efficiency. The latter is more important now than it was back then in my eyes.