R1 versus R4

[MossRoad]

If your rears were slipping, more ballast weight would probably have helped a lot. I'm not sure, in sandy soil, if R-1 tires would have solved anything except helped you dig ruts faster and easier

Ken

Could be right. Before we bought it the two fields were farmed. We leased it out for the first year. So I know farm tractors could move through it pulling plows. But they were much larger and had duals on all corners. Not sure if I could have added any more weight to the thing. Maybe wheel weights in addition to the filled tires, 55 gallons of cement on the 3pt, the steel cab, full fuel tanks and my fat butt in the seat?

 

[Ken45101]

Could be right. Before we bought it the two fields were farmed. We leased it out for the first year. So I know farm tractors could move through it pulling plows. But they were much larger and had duals on all corners. Not sure if I could have added any more weight to the thing. Maybe wheel weights in addition to the filled tires, 55 gallons of cement on the 3pt, the steel cab, full fuel tanks and my fat butt in the seat?

While the 55 gallons of concrete help, it's isn't all that heavy compared to the loader and a scoop full of material. Now if you had filled that 55 gallon drum with lead, it would have helped more ;-) Of course your loaded tires helped. But with a loader, you have a very unbalanced tractor that takes away from the weight on the rear tires. Your 55 gallons of concrete was probably about as much as the empty bucket weighed, but the bucket was further forward and so the concrete didn't fully balance the weight of the bucket.

A good heavy tractor helps, but if you look at modern loaders, they are always 4wd, even the big machines. There is a reason for that, you just can't beat putting drive traction where the weight is, IMO.

 

[MossRoad]

While the 55 gallons of concrete help, it's isn't all that heavy compared to the loader and a scoop full of material. Now if you had filled that 55 gallon drum with lead, it would have helped more ;-) Of course your loaded tires helped. But with a loader, you have a very unbalanced tractor that takes away from the weight on the rear tires. Your 55 gallons of concrete was probably about as much as the empty bucket weighed, but the bucket was further forward and so the concrete didn't fully balance the weight of the bucket.

A good heavy tractor helps, but if you look at modern loaders, they are always 4wd, even the big machines. There is a reason for that, you just can't beat putting drive traction where the weight is, IMO.

You know, I probably could have gotten some lead back then. I work for a newspaper and they still had lead pigs laying around from the old hot metal days.

My bucket was 3/4 yard and yes, you could notice the traction difference when it was full VS empty. The concrete barrel was heavier than the empty bucket, though. I know this because one time I cracked the bucket and took it off to get it welded. I put it in the back of my pickup truck myself with some ramps. I could lift one end of it. It was all I could do to move that concrete barrel around by hand. I was lucky if I could tip it over, then roll it in that sand. Then, standing it up again was a bear! Maybe it was due to the compact size of the barrel VS lifting one end of the bucket?

As for the 4wd... I agree. That's why my current tractor is all wheel drive. It is a fine little loader.

 

[deereboy72]

anybody know a company that makes r1 tires for a John Deere 2305

 

[MossRoad]

anybody know a company that makes r1 tires for a John Deere 2305

You should probably start a new thread with a new title in this or the John Deer forums. You should also include your current tire sizes, front and rear.

Hope that helps.

 

[fishpick]

Because I can't let a sleeping doe lie... and dead horses are fun to beat because they can't get away...

On my TC45 - I have R1's and I would never change that... the tractor pulls like a monster and the tires almost never slip or spin - just all traction. Yes they rut - but it's a farm tractor - so ruts are acceptable.
The loader on this tractor is impressive - and when it's full of heavy stuff - the front tires are NOT happy, they bulge, sway and resist turning... moderate loader work is fine - round bale on the front and it's a little spooky.

The JD 4310 is R4's - loader never makes anythign squat on the front... but good luck going up a wet ground clay soil hillside... the tires load - don't unload - and that's it... you are walking up the hill with the chainsaw...

So - if anyone is still wondering what tires to put on their tractor after 12 pages of posts and flames... it goes back to the begining... depends on what you are doing MOST of the time... then you will have to use operator prowess to address the other percentage of time when your tires are not matched for your conditions.

I know it's been said - but I wanted to sumarize with examples

 

[archerm3]

With all due respect because I know you're a moderator and you could give me penalty points, I would say now you may be looking down on all the TBN members who make a living with tractors and equipment by making that statement. I would never say I could learn to do someone's profession in "short order". It takes thousands of hours of seat time on construction or farm equipment to see what I have seen and develop the techniques to operate efficiently.

I'd like to see someone tell a full size backhoe or excavator operator they could work next to buried electric or natural gas lines or freshly poured concrete walls as good as them in "short order". Seems like a very demeaning post to me.

As far as the R-4/ R-1 debate goes, nobody (including myself) debates that R-1's don't get better traction in soft ground than R-4's, but they don't put R-1's on backhoes or most utility tractors for a reason that you don't seem to understand.

On edit: I notice your lawn tractor has turf tires on it.
What seat time experience do you have on a tractor with R-1's ?

So exactly HOW many hours does it take to be efficient? At not getting stuck with R4's?

How many hours? is it 1001? or 2467hrs?

Moving a tractor around a worksite ain't exactly clinical trials brain surgery. No offense, but if tractor gets moved from a to b in 4.3698432 seconds, it doesn't matter how many hours the operator has.

tractor moved or it didn't.

hole got dug or it didn't.

Job completed on time or didn't.

Gas line touched or not.

I would say tractor experience counts as far as bidding a good price and scheduling an accurate completion time. But you can't knock a guy at operating any type of machinery or argue that he can't do your job if he has at least past a beginner's level of experience in that particular machine. Perhaps he can.

I'm just saying that both you (and Mossroad's to smaller degree) arguments are degenerating into irrelevant ad hominem arguments that don't prove your points. It's just johnson rod measuring at this point.

 

[Builder]

So exactly HOW many hours does it take to be efficient? At not getting stuck with R4's?

How many hours? is it 1001? or 2467hrs?

That's why I said "thousands" of hours.

Moving a tractor around a worksite ain't exactly clinical trials brain surgery. No offense, but if tractor gets moved from a to b in 4.3698432 seconds, it doesn't matter how many hours the operator has.

tractor moved or it didn't.

hole got dug or it didn't.

Job completed on time or didn't.

Gas line touched or not.

The you obviuosly don't have much experience, because it does take many hours to get used to a machine and the way it works, shortcuts for efficiency, touch of the machine. Trench workers lives are in your hands. Don't believe me? Rent a backhoe and start digging next to a propane line or a power main. Just for good measure, have a have a few of your coworkers stand nearby. Then add traffic noise, dirt piles and other obstacles. Oh yeah, be sure to have your old lady take out extra life insurance before you unlock the dipperstick. Think you can just jump in a farm tractor & plant seed? I really don't think so. How about a crane? Can you really lift that 10 ton HVAC unit off the corp center building and lay it perfectly on a flatbed. I've forgotten more construction site accidents than you've ever seen 9 of 10 are from INEXPERIENCE.

I would say tractor experience counts as far as bidding a good price and scheduling an accurate completion time. But you can't knock a guy at operating any type of machinery or argue that he can't do your job if he has at least past a beginner's level of experience in that particular machine. Perhaps he can.

Based on you comments above, you obviously have no appreciation for experienced operator and don't realize that one with 10 years experience is better than one with 1 year experience on the same machine, but there's no point in debating with you. That kind of arrogance causes accidents.

You probably would entrust any upcoming surgeries to a doc fresh out of residencey over an experienced surgeon, too.

 

[Dargo]

Builder, about the only thing I'd add to your post and comments is the fact that some people are simply able to learn how to operate machinery much faster and with more efficiency than others. I'm fortunate to have always been able to pickup about any sport and become competitive in it in a relatively short order. I raced motocross for several years (the most brutal thing I think you can do to your body - playing HS and collegiate football doesn't even come close), raced winged spring cars for a half a season and raced late model cars as well as having raced off road 4 wheel vehicles. Besides the racing, I was able to bs my way into operating dozens of pieces of large mining machinery without ever getting busted. Some people seem to just be able to gain a "feel" for a piece of equipment quickly, others can gain that feel after a lot of practice and others, unfortunately, cannot ever become proficient at operating some machinery no matter how many hours they practice.

You may recall that I've mentioned before that I've been partially buried in trenches twice in the past. This was before the safety barriers were even invented. Not being able to move and struggling for each breath due to being crushed is nothing I care to experience again! The trackhoe operator had hundreds of hours in the seat of that machine but just flat out wasn't a good operator. He banged the sides of the trench with danged near every dip.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I'd bet you've seen people who can get on nearly any piece of equipment and be running it well in only an hour or so of practice. I'd also bet you've seen those guys who you would never let operate any of your equipment even though they have thousands of hours of experience. A lot of their experience has been "bad" experience. Racing in our local mud drags and bog races (yeah, I know; redneck through and through) gave me a lot of 'seat of pants' feel for mudding as well as practical experience. On many occasions I've take a piece of equipment across or through an area that someone said would be impossible. Based on what you've posted, I'd have to assume that you too are one of those people who can gain a reasonable amount of expertise on a machine in short order. With that being the case, I think you'd agree that there is no specific time designation as to when someone is proficient on a machine. It all depends...on a lot of factors.

 

[Builder]

Not much to do with r-1/r-4 here, but maybe there are a few who can feel a machine out quickly, but I still know for a fact that nobody can be trusted to run one around dangerous areas or know all the secrets about not getting stuck, loading on a truck, how to dig/load efficiently, what rpm to run the machine, etc.

I know our wonderful moderator could not out-operate me on a backhoe, (especially mine) or probably any tractor for that matter, except his little itty bitty tractor. I would not be so arrogant as to say that I could out-operate him on a machine he has a lot of hours on.

Those who claim they could show up on a jobsite and keep up with an experienced operator are arrogant fools who would learn many a hard lesson in the first full working day.