Why is my 284 so difficult to start?

[SPIKER]

I had heard that some of them were coming in without glow plugs, seems like a error on the part of anyone shipping to anywhere in North America would know to install something in a diesel engine!

I use 1 HEAT LAMP clamped onto my FEL hose and point it at the injection pump, about 20 min and my glow plugs anytime it is under 30 or so degrees, otherwise just the glow plugs. I can say I have never used the compression release as it does not seem to make any difference. The heat lamp works great but is limited in wattage. It heats evenly and the black engine and parts take the heat very well especially the fuel lines leading to the cylinders. I can add a 2nd one and place it under the pan if it gets too cold I toss over a tarp, I have started it (took 3 tries) when temps were -20 2 yrs back when I was stuck in the drive and had no way out... I left the lamp on for only 20 min and took 3 tries of 30 sec ea on the glow plugs. cranked very slow first 2 cranks, so I put the charger on boost & plugged it in at the starter. that took 10 more min of waiting on the lamp and trickle charger by time I trudged trough the 20+" of snow to the other shed & dug out the door to get the charger out. then back in tennis wet ankles and all, to fire it up... went back and got my boots and carharts on left it idle to warm up hyd fluid was like gear oil...

I have the factory china battery (I bought crate tractor in 02) I keep a maintainer charger on it and have left the key on killed it 2+ times now. still works great. I did (first time) put some of that battery saver chemical in the battery. I was one who put acid into the battery when NEW 8 years ago nearly now... I think that may really helped the life span as I have not heard anything good about the batteries from anyone but me... Trick is to make the battery take first charge correctly, high amp start, 200+ boost for 30 min on mine, then 50 amp charge for 4 hrs then 10 amp overnight with a day to trickle under 2 amps, re-filled the battery acid level to top off, and has been running strong every since.

The KATZ has a lot of good reviews for block heaters, I think everyone wants the 1.5" one... fits in the lower rad hose... even with one I would get s heat lamp too as they are only like 5 bucks (clamp on one with the big alum shield from wally mart>) they work great to put behind you when working in cold too as it warms ya up...

Mark M

 

[greg_g]

I can say I have never used the compression release as it does not seem to make any difference.

Good chance then that it doesn't even work. If it did, there's no way you could miss the difference. Either your linkage is disconnected externally, or it's mal-adjusted internally.

That unattended heat lamp idea - especially considering the tarp - is probably making our OSHA members cringe. I won't even let a halogen work lamp unattended. An unwatched 200A feeding a battery for 30 minutes probably won't give them the warm & fuzzies either.

//greg//

 

[SPIKER]

Good chance then that it doesn't even work. If it did, there's no way you could miss the difference. Either your linkage is disconnected externally, or it's mal-adjusted internally.

That unattended heat lamp idea - especially considering the tarp - is probably making our OSHA members cringe. I won't even let a halogen work lamp unattended. An unattended 200A feeding a battery for 30 minutes probably won't give them the warm & fuzzies either.

//greg//

//greg//

ya, lots of people get way funky on what other people do, there is low chance of heat lamp causing any self ignition. The warmth is different than a flame, it heats the metal, block lines inj. pump. HEAT is good FIRE is bad. the lamp is not touching anything when clipped to the FEL lines it is 12" away from everything and lets the light spread out.

The battery when NEW has to have as much BOOST power into it to set the operation CA/CCA characteristics. If you do not charge them with the proper way the battery will be worthless. This is the problem I think most home assembly people have problems with. The 2snd crate tractor I assembled I did the same thing with his same battery is also still going, I have not talked to him in about 18 months though so he may have replaced his or sold the tractor, last time I spoke to him he was thinking about a 40HP foton.

Mark

 

[RonMar]

No glow plugs... I would really look into a tank type or lower radiator hose type heater.
My Jinma 284 is real easy to install a tank type heater on. There is a little hose jumper up near the thermostat housing. It basically connnects the inlet side of the water pump to the base of the thermostat housing(on engine side of thermostat). One end of the hose is connected to a hosebarb, the other end, on the water pump inlet is connected to a valve that has a screwdriver slot instead of a valve handle. I believe these fittings were to run coolant to a heater core for cabin heat. There is a coolant drain petcock on the rear of the engine block. A tank type(circulating) heater can pretty easilly be connected between the rear block drain petcock and the hose barb right below the thermostat housing. The tank type heater would have the advantage over the lower radiator hose type as it would actually pump/circulate(via thermosiphon)heated coolant thru the entire engine block. I have one setting on my bench ready to go in, but am up to my eyeballs in a broken toyota 4Runner

That compression release is a real good thing to have also. It serves a couple of purposes.
1. It lowers the startup current needed/drawn by the starter when it trys to crank that first piston past it's compression stroke.
2. It allows you to build oil pressure in the crank and rod bearings before pushing a piston up against full compression. This should save wear and tear on the main and rod bearings, much like a pre-lube pump would do.
3. If something has leaked liquid into a cylinder(bad injector, leaking head gasket), the compression release gives this incompressible fluid an exit and could prevent a hydraulic lockup and it's associated damage such as a bent rod, bent or twisted crank or cracked piston or head...

I use mine on EVERY startup regardless of the temperature...

 

[meporsche]

Well, I'm still waiting on confirmation that my 284 engine is Direct Injection. It has no glow plugs, manifold heater or compression release. It DOES have a heating circuit though. Stupid.

Does anyone know if glow plugs can be retrofitted to a DI engine?

 

[greg_g]

Does anyone know if glow plugs can be retrofitted to a DI engine?

Not likely. Direct injection engines typically use different cylinder heads, have no pre-combustion (swirl) chambers, and may even have different shaped piston heads. Glow plugs on indirect injection engines heat into the swirl chambers. On those direct injection engines that do in fact employ glow plugs, they heat directly into the cylinder (no swirl chamber). That said, there could be plugs screwed into holes that would otherwise have glow plugs in them. You just have to know where to look.

To save money, they use a common fuse box for more than one line of tractor - or type of engine. In this case - when fitted with an indirect injection engine - the tractor wiring includes that fused circuit. But if a direct injection engine is put in the same tractor, that fuse slot simply isn't used.

//greg//

 

[Bob Rooks]

If your head looks like these you can retrofit glow plugs, if not, you can't. You need those small angled threaded holes adjacent to the intake ports.

 

[meporsche]

Well, my heads won't accept glow plugs but I now have a radiator heater
(600W KATS) plumbed in and WOW. IN the 20's yesterday, all I had to do was turn the key and it fired IMMEDIATELY. Amazing difference.

Thanks for all the posts and help.

DArwin

 

[RavensRoost]

May still want to investigate comperession release to see if it is working or not with an eye towards fixing/adjusting if needed.

 

[Turbo]

Yea, it is a bummer with no ammeter. My DF has the newer oval dash with no ammeter. Would like to add one though

Dave

Mine doesn't have a ammeter on it ether, but I did install a two idiot lite,
one for the 4x4 so I know when it's engage or not, and one above the key so I can tell if I have left the key on, the one in the dash isn't bright enough, and you can't see it from a distance., but the added benefit is that when I use the glow plugs the light dims down and I know that the plugs are working.

this is the 4x4 light on, but it's the same as the key lite on the other side.

 

[hevans]

My brand new 284 is also very hard to start in cold weather. The air temperature was in the forties today and I still could not get it to start. Lots of white smoke came out of the exhaust pipe, but that's about it.

After reading this thread, I noticed that I have some of the same problems others have. For example, my glow plug bar is not connected to electricity at all. However, there IS a heater in the fuel pump area that the air hose connects to which gets warm to the touch real quickly. (Also, I have no compression release lever because I have a shuttle shift, or so I have been told. Is there one hidden in there somewhere?)

So, what do you think I should do? I store the tractor in my uninsulated barn so if I want to heat the space, I'd probably have to use a salamander heater or something powerful like that. I suppose I could try the heat lamp technique, but I'm not sure that would be warm enough in an uninsulated barn.

Any and all ideas are welcome. I don't HAVE to use the tractor this winter (I have other gas tractors that DO start!), but is it bad to 'store' a tractor like this? I thought engines needed to run once in awhile in order to keep the oil circulated, etc.

 

[TTTTTT]

My brand new 284 is also very hard to start in cold weather. The air temperature was in the forties today and I still could not get it to start. Lots of white smoke came out of the exhaust pipe, but that's about it.

After reading this thread, I noticed that I have some of the same problems others have. For example, my glow plug bar is not connected to electricity at all. However, there IS a heater in the fuel pump area that the air hose connects to which gets warm to the touch real quickly. (Also, I have no compression release lever because I have a shuttle shift, or so I have been told. Is there one hidden in there somewhere?)

So, what do you think I should do? I store the tractor in my uninsulated barn so if I want to heat the space, I'd probably have to use a salamander heater or something powerful like that. I suppose I could try the heat lamp technique, but I'm not sure that would be warm enough in an uninsulated barn.

Any and all ideas are welcome. I don't HAVE to use the tractor this winter (I have other gas tractors that DO start!), but is it bad to 'store' a tractor like this? I thought engines needed to run once in awhile in order to keep the oil circulated, etc.

To help solve the starting problem it may be fairly simple. I would go for the glow plugs and get thoses wired in. I found my manifold heater wasn't up to the task for cold weather. The glow plugs made all the difference. I simply took the wire from the manifold heater and attached it to the GP busbar. It sounds like your other heater is working as you said it gets warm, so that wire seems to carry power to the manifold heater as needed. If you don't want to go through the ignition switch, you could run it right from the battery through a 30amp inline fuse to a convieniently located switch on the dash and then just switch it on for 20-30 sec bursts and start. Just remember to switch it off when not in use or risk burning out the GP's or use a lighted switch as a reminder. The best is to go off the ignition switch where it is spring loaded back to the 'off' position as you release it.

Dave

 

[Diamondpilot]

My brand new 284 is also very hard to start in cold weather. The air temperature was in the forties today and I still could not get it to start. Lots of white smoke came out of the exhaust pipe, but that's about it.

After reading this thread, I noticed that I have some of the same problems others have. For example, my glow plug bar is not connected to electricity at all. However, there IS a heater in the fuel pump area that the air hose connects to which gets warm to the touch real quickly. (Also, I have no compression release lever because I have a shuttle shift, or so I have been told. Is there one hidden in there somewhere?)

So, what do you think I should do? I store the tractor in my uninsulated barn so if I want to heat the space, I'd probably have to use a salamander heater or something powerful like that. I suppose I could try the heat lamp technique, but I'm not sure that would be warm enough in an uninsulated barn.

Any and all ideas are welcome. I don't HAVE to use the tractor this winter (I have other gas tractors that DO start!), but is it bad to 'store' a tractor like this? I thought engines needed to run once in awhile in order to keep the oil circulated, etc.

I am guessing you do not have a Yangdong engine. They have since changed. I have a 2003 Jinma and it starts no matter how cold it is. One cheap thing to do is add a lower radiator hose heater. TSC has them for $25.

You have a intake heater that simply drips fuel and starts a small fire in the intake to warm the air. You could jerry rig the glow plugs by getting 12V to the bus via some sorta switch. They are grounded by the body of the plug like a spark plug.

Are you the same guy from Bloomington asking these questions on CTOA?

The picture shows the package and part #. Just plug it in for 1 hour and the block will be 100 plus deg.

Also TTTTTT has some good suggestions. I would follow what he said then get the heater I posted and it will start like its summer.

Chris

 

[Steve C]

I am guessing you do not have a Yangdong engine. They have since changed. I have a 2003 Jinma and it starts no matter how cold it is. One cheap thing to do is add a lower radiator hose heater. TSC has them for $25.

You have a intake heater that simply drips fuel and starts a small fire in the intake to warm the air. You could jerry rig the glow plugs by getting 12V to the bus via some sorta switch. They are grounded by the body of the plug like a spark plug.

Are you the same guy from Bloomington asking these questions on CTOA?

The picture shows the package and part #. Just plug it in for 1 hour and the block will be 100 plus deg.

Also TTTTTT has some good suggestions. I would follow what he said then get the heater I posted and it will start like its summer.

Chris

I just bought one today at Tractor supply (TSC). It was only $21.99 and it is manufactured in the USA!!!

I did have to go to 3 different TSC stores before I found one in stock. I bought the exact same model number 14600

 

[Diamondpilot]

I just bought one today at Tractor supply (TSC). It was only $21.99 and it is manufactured in the USA!!!

I did have to go to 3 different TSC stores before I found one in stock. I bought the exact same model number 14600

You will be amazed at how well it works.

Just a side note: I have never had a single issue with mine, had it 4 or 5 years. Some have said the area where the cord goes into the unit can get water in it if washing the tractor causing issues. Many take it apart via the 2 little screws and put a dab of RTV. I did just for good measure because I use my power washer about 1 time a month in the summer on it.

Chris

 

[Steve C]

You will be amazed at how well it works.

Just a side note: I have never had a single issue with mine, had it 4 or 5 years. Some have said the area where the cord goes into the unit can get water in it if washing the tractor causing issues. Many take it apart via the 2 little screws and put a dab of RTV. I did just for good measure because I use my power washer about 1 time a month in the summer on it.

Chris

Great! Thanks for the tip. I probably should do the same thing. My tractor will probably not get washed much in the near future because I am not set up for doing that at the moment. But when I do wash it, it will be wiith my 13 HP pressure washer. That thing has a scary amount of power. When I cleaned my barn floor before painting it I found out that it would easily cut into the concrete surface if held to close. The air being pushed by the spray was blowing around 30" long lengths of 2x6 that were laying on the floor 15 feet in front of where the water was hitting the floor. They were flying up into the air and spinning like they were made of styrofoam and they were not even getting wet, just being pushed by the air flow that was being displaced by the water! I gained a new appreciation of what a 4000 psi pressure washer can do.

When I use it to wash the dirt bikes I stand a long way back to avoid getting water where it it isn't supposed to be.

 

[SPIKER]

Ny brother power washed mine for me, and blew out the pump seals. by spraying water between the pump body & flanges/end plates. I had to buy NEW pump (bought seal kit but old pump and new seal kit still didnt work afterward..) SO DONT spray high pressure water onto the Hyd Pump either...

Mark

 

[RonMar]

I got ambitious this weekend and installed the tank type heater on my 284. It is a 1000 watt and circulates water from the rear of the block up thru the head. It brings the head and block from 30F to around 90F in about 20 minutes. I figure about 30 minutes when it is cold out will give me a pretty nice start.

Had to patch a rear innertube also. That was interesting