BobRip
Elite Member
I bought the Haynes manual on welding. It was a good start. I do my own welding for tractor attachments, but it's not pretty.
Welding - I want to learn ..need advice.
- Thread starter brin
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dex3361
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Do yourself a big favor and get a Buzz box 240V av/dc welder and you will thank yourself a thousand times I can and do use the AC side of the machine but I would rather DC weld any time than AC weld. I bought the
Hobart AC/DC from Tractor Supply for about $350 but if you watch you can find the used for about $100-$200. I have some PDF files of military metal working training if your interested send me a PM because the files are to big.
Chilly807
Elite Member
I tend to agree with most here, but depending on how much you plan to weld you may want to consider a good quality 220 MIG to begin with. The only thing they're not good at is dirty rusty metal, things have to be relatively clean to begin with. The stick welders aren't much good with thin metals (bodywork), patching holes in thin stuff like mufflers, etc.
I learned to weld with a stick many years ago in trade school, and got to be not too bad at it. Mind you it was a pretty good welder too, so that helped.
I always say, "If you can't weld with a MIG, you simply can't weld !" Most MIGs allow use of either shielding gas or flux core wire, add a spool gun and you can weld aluminum, etc.
One other thing I agree with, take a few courses (night school, weekend classes, whatever) The best thing you'll get from them is the benefit of the instructor's experience.
I've got a Miller 180 MIG and am pretty happy with it. Hobart is made by Miller, usually with a few less bells and whistles. Nothing wrong with them at all. The trade-off from 110 volt to 220 is the loss of real portability for the sake of more power. Mine requires 220 volts and 30 amps for full capability, the new garage was wired with that in mind. My old machine needed 110 volts and 20 amps, ran great from a generator and would weld most things I needed done. The new one was a prize in a contest, so it was a cheap upgrade for me !
Good luck
Chilly
I learned to weld with a stick many years ago in trade school, and got to be not too bad at it. Mind you it was a pretty good welder too, so that helped.
I always say, "If you can't weld with a MIG, you simply can't weld !" Most MIGs allow use of either shielding gas or flux core wire, add a spool gun and you can weld aluminum, etc.
One other thing I agree with, take a few courses (night school, weekend classes, whatever) The best thing you'll get from them is the benefit of the instructor's experience.
I've got a Miller 180 MIG and am pretty happy with it. Hobart is made by Miller, usually with a few less bells and whistles. Nothing wrong with them at all. The trade-off from 110 volt to 220 is the loss of real portability for the sake of more power. Mine requires 220 volts and 30 amps for full capability, the new garage was wired with that in mind. My old machine needed 110 volts and 20 amps, ran great from a generator and would weld most things I needed done. The new one was a prize in a contest, so it was a cheap upgrade for me !
Good luck
Chilly
JB4310
Super Member
Take the advice of others and get a little formal training, read some books, anything. An afternoon with your FIL would of been enough for you to take the reins by yourself, but now you will have to start from scratch.
DON'T do what I did, which is get no help and try and teach yourself, I did that and have been welding for 30 years and I still ain't that good
Just recently I've been at least reading some books on the subject.
Mig vs Stick, it's a polarizing issue.
I have a 135 Hobart handler and a couple of 200 amp sticks. I could live with out the mig couldn't without the stick.
Like was mentioned if your gonna have just 1 welder for "fabrication" and your thinking about MIG then you would have to have 230 volt unit, Those start to get a little pricey and do require some maintenance and have wear parts. IMO you'll get the most BUZZ for the buck with a stick welder.
If you actually take a class you'll get to try different processes and maybe you will find you just have to have one or the other.
jb.
DON'T do what I did, which is get no help and try and teach yourself, I did that and have been welding for 30 years and I still ain't that good
Just recently I've been at least reading some books on the subject.Mig vs Stick, it's a polarizing issue.
I have a 135 Hobart handler and a couple of 200 amp sticks. I could live with out the mig couldn't without the stick.
Like was mentioned if your gonna have just 1 welder for "fabrication" and your thinking about MIG then you would have to have 230 volt unit, Those start to get a little pricey and do require some maintenance and have wear parts. IMO you'll get the most BUZZ for the buck with a stick welder.
If you actually take a class you'll get to try different processes and maybe you will find you just have to have one or the other.
jb.
SuperDuty335
Silver Member
You can teach yourself like I did. The drawback is it took me way too long to learn what I was doing. I'm a pretty good welder now but could have been better sooner with a little formal education. BTW the stick welder is my favorite over MIG by far.
Gary Fowler
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Most folks on this forum prefer the wire feeder, ie MIG or Flux Core simply because just about anyone can run a fair looking bead weld with one. They can be a real PIA if they get a little wear on them and the wire starts feeding irratically. They also tend to have defects in the weld much more so than stick rod which is the reason most engineering specification for pressure piping require special approval to use them. I personally prefer the stick or TIG process. Get your self a good AC/DC machine as basic welder. If you can swing it get one with AC/DC with constant current (CC)capability and you can just add a wire feeder to the machine and then you have stick, MIG, FCAW and TIG capability. For light metal welding, nothing beats a TIG torch and all you need is a bottle of argon and the torch and of course some bare TIG wire in addition to your stick welding machine. TIG requires some practice, but is similar to oxy-fuel welding but you can weld just about anything with TIG with the right power supply. I actually welded two pieces of aluminum foil on a cigarette pack together once with one. With TIG you need AC for aluminum and DC for everything else. Look on Craigslist for construction shops closing down and you can pick up some industrial size 220/480 single phase machines cheap. I got my Miller 350 amp AC/DC CC machine with 100 feet of welding lead for $400. Make sure you dont buy a 3 phase machine as no residential power has 3 phase electrical.
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
brin,
Learning to weld is gratifying. I was partially self taught. Had a few friends that were certified welders. One on one is a great way to learn and you can learn a lot in a hurry.
First things first. Depending on your eye sight, Get a pair of drug store reading glasses that allow you to see really well at 18'' or so. That will enable you to see the "puddle" of molten steel. That is important. Watch a friend weld to see what you are trying to do with the "puddle".
Get an auto-darkening helmet. Makes things easier.
A DC machine allows you to put the heat in the work or the rod depending on polarity and the work you are welding.
Next, AC KILLS. If you are in a situation where you are "in the circuit" while welding, AC is more likely to KILL YOU.
Lastly, take a class. There is no substitute for learning how to weld properly.
Dave
Learning to weld is gratifying. I was partially self taught. Had a few friends that were certified welders. One on one is a great way to learn and you can learn a lot in a hurry.
First things first. Depending on your eye sight, Get a pair of drug store reading glasses that allow you to see really well at 18'' or so. That will enable you to see the "puddle" of molten steel. That is important. Watch a friend weld to see what you are trying to do with the "puddle".
Get an auto-darkening helmet. Makes things easier.
A DC machine allows you to put the heat in the work or the rod depending on polarity and the work you are welding.
Next, AC KILLS. If you are in a situation where you are "in the circuit" while welding, AC is more likely to KILL YOU.
Lastly, take a class. There is no substitute for learning how to weld properly.
Dave
Soundguy
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Don't kid yourself.. it's a voltage thing.. look at welding votlages on dc, then ac.. then rememebr that ac is a sine wave.. potential from both sides to center. peak to peak voltage is quite a bit more than RMS
soundguy
DaveOmak
Platinum Member
Soundguy, If I was in error please explain how I am kidding myself?
The body has about 24 to 36 volts resistance capability depending on the individual. DC is weldable from about 20 volt and up. AC is weldable from about 30 volts and up. current. AC will interrupt the heart rhythm. DC does not have that effect. Remember science class when the static electricity generator was producing 50,00 volts DC and your hair stood on end and all the class was amused?
I was taught AC KILLS. I believe it. If my instructor was wrong, I appologize for my stupidity. I am not willing to use myself or let anyone else attempt to contradict those theorys. The consequences are not worth it.
Again, if I am in error, I erred on the side of safety. Dave
The body has about 24 to 36 volts resistance capability depending on the individual. DC is weldable from about 20 volt and up. AC is weldable from about 30 volts and up. current. AC will interrupt the heart rhythm. DC does not have that effect. Remember science class when the static electricity generator was producing 50,00 volts DC and your hair stood on end and all the class was amused?
I was taught AC KILLS. I believe it. If my instructor was wrong, I appologize for my stupidity. I am not willing to use myself or let anyone else attempt to contradict those theorys. The consequences are not worth it.
Again, if I am in error, I erred on the side of safety. Dave
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flusher
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You can buy welding DVDs that'll help you get started. I have the DVDs from Wall Mountain and they're pretty helpful and not too expensive.
Instructional Welding Videos
With stick welding you need to control current, arc length, rod angle and travel speed. Current is easy, just follow the chart that's on your welder for the rod type and size.
Arc length control can be a problem for beginners so I recommend the 7014 and 7024 drag rods (1/8" dia). As the name implies, you angle the rod off vertical about 30 degrees, touch the rod to the workpiece and drag it along. The thickness of the flux and the angle of the rod keeps the arc at the proper length. The 7024 rod is about the easiest stick rod I've found to use but it only works welding in the horizontal position. The 7014 rod is just about as easy to use and works in any position.
Most beginners move the rod too fast. It takes a little practice to slow down and let the base metal heat up enough so the edges of the puddle tie in properly with the base metal. That's what you what you want for proper weld penetration and strong welds. That Wall Mountain DVD has excellent videos showing how this works.