brin
Super Member
Hey fellas...In my humble opinion much of it is explained in one word...corruption...it seems it is rampid..under the table deals that we will never know about.
Who are these CRAZY contractors????????
- Thread starter cbturf
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tlbuser
Veteran Member
Nope, you missed the point. People here were bashing some guy for bidding a job which you guys say you can't work for. To each their own, no one will know if he can until the job is done or defaulted. IMO, the winning bidder should be given a fair opportunity. Maybe they've got contacts in the restaurant business and are burning WVO.
tlbuser
Veteran Member
Apparently mulcher math doesn't add up right for anybody. What is the traditional land clearing customer getting for $2000/acre ?
QwikDraw
Platinum Member
No you missed the point. Contractors like this are hurting legitimate busnesses that need to make a profit to survive which this contractor will not. If in your buisness (whatever that is) some one under bid you and others by 40% in a market where everyone is bidding tight you would KNOW that this contractor is not making a profit just hurting others and the whole pricing of this type of work.
Timark80
Bronze Member
I guess y'all must be close to DC to get a $1000 per acre.
Must be nice making $500 per hr. I understand the mountains have alot to do with the price.
Around here I can usually get 1 acre($300 per acre) completed in 2 hrs and
make $150 per hr.
My minimum charge is $500 for anything less than 4 hrs work,within my home county.
My bottom line is $125 an hr. for local work.Otherwise I stay home and work on my own property.
tlbuser
Veteran Member
I am in the excavation/design/build industry, hence my interest in forestry mulching. In our line anyone with a hammer, tractor, pencil and paper is a potential competitior. To be awarded any type of gov't contract, it has to be a legitimate business. It's unfair to characterize them as anything else. Contracts are not always awarded based on low price either. Most awards give priority to minority contractors, female owned businesses, etc. Maybe, just maybe they know something we don't about the job. I fully understand the dilemma, just not the reactions to the event. Job bidding is part of what contractors do and most hate about their job.
Competiition in and of itself does not kill businesses, businesses kill themselves. If any business is as good as it thinks, then a good customer base is there. Handling that customer base with the care and respect it deserves is a huge problem. We place a good deal of attention on our customer service side because facts show happy customers keep us going. There's been more than one job where the profit margins weren't great.
OP
cbturf
Gold Member
WOW!!! Did I slap a hornets nest or what? My point in the first post was to express my frustration at these guys bidding to low. Believe it or not after three years I really do know what it takes to run a mulching business, the other guys who are one here who are still in business also know what it takes. My problem is with they guys that have had their ASVs for six months and go out and bit a 1000-1200 acre job. I have been the low bidder and not gotten the contract on two separate occasions, that may be corruption. It is my understanding of crooked government contracts you need to be making money! How could you pay any sort of kickback if you are loosing $500-$1000 per day? Still waiting for Palmetto to chime in on that first job in SC, he was the one that told me about the guys pitiful production.
I know of 4 different federal contracts that have been bid at or around $200/acre and three have defaulted and I am sure that the fourth will also. Not to mention the latest round of <$200/acre jobs out there right now.
Mulching is by far the best way to clear land, but those guys with an ASV and big money dreams need to know the limits of their machines. I had an ASV and I did oversell what I could do with it and I was fired of of my very first job. I learned very quickly that real machines are needed in this business, if it IS your business. ASVs do a decent job for clearing brush but they have absolutely no business on a 1000 acre contract!
I know of 4 different federal contracts that have been bid at or around $200/acre and three have defaulted and I am sure that the fourth will also. Not to mention the latest round of <$200/acre jobs out there right now.
Mulching is by far the best way to clear land, but those guys with an ASV and big money dreams need to know the limits of their machines. I had an ASV and I did oversell what I could do with it and I was fired of of my very first job. I learned very quickly that real machines are needed in this business, if it IS your business. ASVs do a decent job for clearing brush but they have absolutely no business on a 1000 acre contract!
ClearViewGroup
Silver Member
Timark..we have been out of the business for a few years so when we were getting that money it was better times...now days the prices have gone way down...
tlbuser...the old fashioned clearing that goes for 2k an acre around here is grubbing out all the 8-10 inch minus material and either hauling or burning then power rake or rough grading the soil and stabilizing (either planting grass or spreading out wood chips) the funny thing is that the guys not running mulchers have to go and buy the chips to spread out plus they have to use silt fence and get land disturbance permits where as the mulchers can just go in and mulch and leave...it still hasnt caught on around here as much as in other parts of the country though for some reason...
tlbuser...the old fashioned clearing that goes for 2k an acre around here is grubbing out all the 8-10 inch minus material and either hauling or burning then power rake or rough grading the soil and stabilizing (either planting grass or spreading out wood chips) the funny thing is that the guys not running mulchers have to go and buy the chips to spread out plus they have to use silt fence and get land disturbance permits where as the mulchers can just go in and mulch and leave...it still hasnt caught on around here as much as in other parts of the country though for some reason...
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I'm a remodeler and was recently underbid on a bathroom job for a client that I'm working for on another project. They are way over budget on what I'm doing for them, but they keep adding to it and wanting everthing possible to it. I bid the bathroom part of it seperately because we knew the money was tight and they want it done, but can rent portable bathrooms until they can afford the bathroom job.
Two weeks ago, an old buddy of the owner came by looking for work. He's an out of work, down on his luck plumber. He was less then half of what I bid. Over half of my bid was materials, so I'm really curious howhe came in so low. Being a long time friend of the owner, he hired him. The guy doesn't have any tools and is constantly going through there storage shed looking for tools to borrow. He's dumping everything next to their barn, which will cost more to remove, and after two weeks, he's still doing demo work. Long lunches and short days.
While I'm disapointed not to get the job, the clients are now starting to openly talk to me about the possibility that they made a mistake. I'm keeping my mouth shut and working on finishing the job that I'm working on. I have jobs booked up to the end of Feb, and I have a very strong suspicion that I'll be finishing, or totaly redoing what is being done right now. The wife asked if my bid would be different to finish it, and I told her it depended on what he did right, and what I had to tear out and redo. She wasn't happy about it, but then said it's her husbands money and he'll just have to pay it.
I know just what it's like to deal with those who underbid a job with wild promises on what they can do, and what it really costs. While it's sad for the clients to learn their lessons the hard way, I've found that those people become my very best clients and go out of their way to market me to their friends.
Now I look at those low budget, shot cut taking, never finishing or showing up type of contractors as a blessing. I've made allot of money because of them, and it's gotten to the point that I have steady work with jobs lined up and clients willing to wait months for me.
Hope the same thing happens for you guys. Do it as good as you can and make the competition look bad by example. Rarely is it about the money if you are reasonable. It's always about what they get for their money and leaving them so satisfied with your work that they are recomending you to others.
Eddie
Two weeks ago, an old buddy of the owner came by looking for work. He's an out of work, down on his luck plumber. He was less then half of what I bid. Over half of my bid was materials, so I'm really curious howhe came in so low. Being a long time friend of the owner, he hired him. The guy doesn't have any tools and is constantly going through there storage shed looking for tools to borrow. He's dumping everything next to their barn, which will cost more to remove, and after two weeks, he's still doing demo work. Long lunches and short days.
While I'm disapointed not to get the job, the clients are now starting to openly talk to me about the possibility that they made a mistake. I'm keeping my mouth shut and working on finishing the job that I'm working on. I have jobs booked up to the end of Feb, and I have a very strong suspicion that I'll be finishing, or totaly redoing what is being done right now. The wife asked if my bid would be different to finish it, and I told her it depended on what he did right, and what I had to tear out and redo. She wasn't happy about it, but then said it's her husbands money and he'll just have to pay it.
I know just what it's like to deal with those who underbid a job with wild promises on what they can do, and what it really costs. While it's sad for the clients to learn their lessons the hard way, I've found that those people become my very best clients and go out of their way to market me to their friends.
Now I look at those low budget, shot cut taking, never finishing or showing up type of contractors as a blessing. I've made allot of money because of them, and it's gotten to the point that I have steady work with jobs lined up and clients willing to wait months for me.
Hope the same thing happens for you guys. Do it as good as you can and make the competition look bad by example. Rarely is it about the money if you are reasonable. It's always about what they get for their money and leaving them so satisfied with your work that they are recomending you to others.
Eddie
Renze
Elite Member
Everybody knows thats the best thing to do, to stay out of trouble with the customer... However, they might say afterwards "if you knew what was going on, why didnt you warn us !!"
Its allways a dilemma between either of the two...
