freezing tc24da

[tc24guy]

I started my tractor for the first time this year and it ran for about 2 minutes before it stalled out. Its been parked outside in the snow. I'm guessing its some kind of fuel starvation problem. This happened once last year and I waited until the weather warmed up to the high 30s then I moved the tractor inside the barn then it didn't happen again, but last winter was alot warmer. So what do you think is going on here and How can I get my tractor running when the weather isn't supposed to rise above the 20s for another week?


Thanks, the snow is getting deep in the driveway :-(

 

[SARG]

Gelled fuel? Did you put in the diesel treatments?

 

[jinman]

My guess is that since you haven't been running the tractor that it still has summer formulated diesel in it and you are getting some gelling or perhaps some water in the fuel that is now frozen. Your choices seem to be to tow the tractor to a warmer spot or warm it where it is with some type of turbo heater. I'd sure opt for the tow myself. Get it somewhere warm and get the old fuel out. Add fresh fuel and maybe do a filter change. To be certain this doesn't occur again, add some fuel anti-gel product every fall before it gets cold.

All this is coming from a Texas guy who never had this problem, so I'm sure you will soon get better responses from some local folks.

 

[bp fick]

Please do not be offended, for none is intended, but machinery neglect is tough on things. Machines get abandoned, in horrible temperature and humidity swings, fuel gets old, stale, gummed up, humidified, and condensation occurs.

Even with fuel supplements, there is no substitute for fresh fuel, regular filter changes, regular oil changes and a minimum of a full start and 45 minutes to an hour hot run per month where possible.

2 strokes, 4 cycles, and diesels have pre-storage procedures. Just sayin'.

A dollar to a donut says it bad fuel and/or filters now.

 

[tc24guy]

Gelled fuel? Did you put in the diesel treatments?

THE diesel treatments? ummmmm, no. Never had this problem before so I never had to. but I usually kept it in my unheated garage. It couldn't have been more then a month since the last time it ran fine. But I didn't know of the "gelled fuel" problem until now.

What is gelled fuel?

Please do not be offended, for none is intended, but machinery neglect is tough on things. Machines get abandoned, in horrible temperature and humidity swings, fuel gets old, stale, gummed up, humidified, and condensation occurs.

Even with fuel supplements, there is no substitute for fresh fuel, regular filter changes, regular oil changes and a minimum of a full start and 45 minutes to an hour hot run per month where possible.

2 strokes, 4 cycles, and diesels have pre-storage procedures. Just sayin'.

A dollar to a donut says it bad fuel and/or filters now.

No offense taken, and last year when this happened I just changed the filter + a warm spell and everything was fine for the rest of the year but I only needed to plow my drive a few times. I guess leaving it outside is the wrong thing to do. I appreciate everyone's advice and hearing your experiences, Keep them coming, Thank you.

 

[jinman]

THE diesel treatments? ummmmm, no. Never had this problem before so I never had to. but I usually kept it in my unheated garage. It couldn't have been more then a month since the last time it ran fine. But I didn't know of the "gelled fuel" problem until now.

What is gelled fuel?

Gelled fuel relates to wax crystals that form in the diesel and fall out of solution in cold temperatures. The wax then clogs fuel filters and passages.

All diesel has water in it. When the fuel sits for a long time in cold temperatures, the water droplets tend to cling to the fuel filter material and then freeze when the temperature drops, thus clogging your filter.

There are several cures to help prevent both of these problems. Diesel 911 is a Power Service brand product that helps with clearing frozen water and they also have a full range of products for diesels operated in very cold temperatures.

There is nothing to be ashamed of about not knowing these things. Sometimes you have to experience problems to ask the right questions. Once you know of these issues and don't take action, then that is reason to be a bit embarrassed.

 

[tc24guy]

So I stopped at the dealer to see what they had to say and he sold me a new fuel filter and o-ring and gave me about 1/3 bottle of Amsoil Diesel Recovery (+1 brownie point for dealer). now I gotta wait for the lines to thaw...


well, now I know what a frozen fuel filter looks like )

Edit: Thanks for that detailed description of what happens to diesel fuel Jim!

 

[jinman]

That one picture is worth thousands and thousands of words. It's the "poster child" for adding diesel additives for cold weather. Thanks for posting.

 

[bp fick]

I have two observations. First, given the number of times the words Diesel Fuel Anti-gelling Additive is mentioned here at TBN, to find someone who did not know about the possibility of gelling is, well.....er.. like that movie the 40 Year Old Virgin.

Secondly, that there is debate about using diesel supplements on TBN, with so many guys swearing they never bother and then have this post, along with a half dozen other guys post this cold winter week about fuel gelling, also leaves me scratching my head.

 

[tc24guy]

Well there is not much left to think about here. If you leave your tractor outside during a freeze - thaw - freeze duration of time, and you try to start it in 20* weather you should be prepared for this to happen! I was expecting to see some ice crystals but not the entire filter frozen solid! Now the question is - do the additives really work??? Also would it be better to have a full tank of fuel instead of half?

 

[Nik]

Howes diesel worked for me. Last winter my Kubota was kept stalling out due to gelled fuel in 32 degree weather. i bought Howes and added a small amount as per the directions. After circulating in the engine for only a couple of minutes the engine stopped hesitating and stalling out. Ran perfectly after that and did not have to change any filters or fuel. here is a picture of the fuel bowl before adding howes.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I use anti-gel in my TC 26 DA and it still has a problem from time to time in very cold weather.. It is true that I use it sparingly in the fall so the winter finds it with summer fuel still in it. Because of the way it acts, I think part of the problem is the very tiny fuel filter/bowl on these little tractors.

The tractor always starts, and then will run for a few minutes like everything is fine, but then die. After that it will start and run for just a few seconds and then die. This is due to the small amount of fuel getting through the filter which is surrounded by gelled fuel. It never gets a chance to warm up to any extent, and because it doesn't and the fuel filter/bowl doesn't get a chance to scavenge any warmth froim the engine, it worsens. If the engine runs long enough to get to normal operating temperature, there is no problem, and the fuel filter does indeed scavenge quite a bit of heat from the engine. Probably if you run it long enough, the fuel tank does as well..

To hopefully rectify the problem, which I got out of using diesel 911, I added more of the antigel, and a little bit of kersoene and some fresh fuel to fill the tank after I used it a while. It seems to be better now, but I haven't tested it in 10 degree weather since the last time it gelled.

It's nice to have fresh fuel, but if you don't use the tractor constantly and you follow the manual suggestions to keep the tank full, you are always going to end up with summer fuel in there for at least the beginning of the winter. It's also true that these little engines don't burn a lot of fuel, so it's hard to strike a balance.

 

[tc24guy]

Note to self

With the information gathered here I will make a "note to myself" for next year, since the tractor rarely gets used in October and pretty much just sits in Nov-Dec. I will need to do something for the following years or until I can build a new barn.

During fall let the tractor run low on fuel and start with additves. Do a few warm ups in the off months. Purchase new fuel just before the first heavy snow (which can be anywhere from November to February) mix with additives and top off tank.

 

[bp fick]

Re: Note to self

With the information gathered here I will make a "note to myself" for next year, since the tractor rarely gets used in October and pretty much just sits in Nov-Dec. I will need to do something for the following years or until I can build a new barn.

During fall let the tractor run low on fuel and start with additves. Do a few warm ups in the off months. Purchase new fuel just before the first heavy snow (which can be anywhere from November to February) mix with additives and top off tank.

Your observations and commitments are right on. I know others may love to keep 50 gallons of fuel in reserve, but even though I live in the sticks, there is a diesel pump at a station a mile and a half from me. It gets reasonably good business, being off the interstate. I let them be my storage. Since they fuel busses, commercial trucks and such, I know they get pretty frequent refills.

I just don't keep a lot of fuel around to go stale. Gas, Mix, or Diesel. I detest aging fuel issues, so I'd rather just stop by the station with my fuel can as needed. Just enough to stay ahead, that's all.

Personally, I pretty much ignore the hour meter. If it's fall and the leaves are falling, it's time for an oil/filter change and the annual fuel filter change. Winter here is too harsh to be playing emergency mechanic. I prefer reliability.

 

[RickB]

That one picture is worth thousands and thousands of words. It's the "poster child" for adding diesel additives for cold weather. Thanks for posting.

Diesel additives aren't going to do much for that. That is frozen water, not gelled fuel. That is far more water than any trteatment will cure, and at any rate, even dispersed, treated water must be jammed through injectors and pumps to be eliminated from the system. Due to the size of water molecules, this is very hard on equipment. When I was farming ( and actually to this day), every diesel I own got a fresh fuel filter sometime between Halloween and Thanksgiving. That way, any collected water residing in the filter or filter bowl is disposed of. Fuel gelling may also be a problem in this instance, and treated fuel is also a part of the answer. I don't mean to suggest clean summer fuel would work in these conditions. It would likely gel even without the water problem.

 

[tc24guy]

Winter Fuel blend ?

I agree with you Rick and that much water didn't accumulate overnight either. So fresh fuel from the station in the beginning of December sounds like a plan. Next question??? when do they (fuel stations) switch from summer blend to winter blend? and is it better to use "on road" or "off road" fuel for winter???



Thanks everyone for the great info!

 

[bp fick]

If you are like 90% of the cut guys here on TBN, you buy your fuel from a local station. That station, to answer your question, may begin the shift from summer to winter as early as September. But the process is lengthy and the "mix" you actually get from the tank is going to take awhile to be more winter mix. By November, your local station should be completely winter blend. This is my northern exposure experience. YMMV.

Off road vs On Road. Again, if you are like the majority here, you are buying your diesel from a Quick Mart or Truck stop near you. You aren't nearly as likely to go find a jobber who sells you off road.

I also agree that your photo looks a lot more like solid ice than merely diesel wax. Cause? Stored outside. Condensation. Watery diesel in the first place. Take your pick.

 

[tc24guy]

After I added the Amsoil stuff I got the hairdryer out and warmed up the fuel lines, bled them and it started but was running crappy and eventually stalled. so I got some fresh fuel and topped off the tank and proceeded to clear my drive for a couple of hours with out any problems. Now the TC24 is tightly parked in the barn .

 

[Soundguy]

besides perhaps having summer fuel.. have you been servicing the filter and any watyer traps?

soundguy

 

[tc24guy]

besides perhaps having summer fuel.. have you been servicing the filter and any watyer traps?

soundguy

It was time for the 50 hour service 450 hours. and the fuel was probably 6months old, so definitely summer fuel. and sat for quite a while at 1/2 tank. 20/20 my problem was obvious.