newbury
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 14,095
- Location
- From Vt, in Va, retiring to MS
- Tractor
- Kubota's - B7610, M4700
Won't get fooled again
- Thread starter YotaBota
- Start date
- Views: 13847
forester2
Gold Member
I think TripleR hit the nail on the head; if you CAN do it yourself $350's alot of money- if you CAN"T, it's a pretty fair deal.
As far as the majority of do-it-yourselfers using junk products to do their service, I see the huge number of people here asking questions on how to do it the right way as evidence that this is not the case. How about the manufactures giving better service instructions in their owners manuals. And charging for PARTS LISTS- are you kidding me? How much easier would it be for the guy at the parts counter if people had a parts number when they walked in. Thank god theirs guys like Messicks that have parts lists on line. The amount charged for a service manual is also ridiculous.
As far as the majority of do-it-yourselfers using junk products to do their service, I see the huge number of people here asking questions on how to do it the right way as evidence that this is not the case. How about the manufactures giving better service instructions in their owners manuals. And charging for PARTS LISTS- are you kidding me? How much easier would it be for the guy at the parts counter if people had a parts number when they walked in. Thank god theirs guys like Messicks that have parts lists on line. The amount charged for a service manual is also ridiculous.
packrat001
New member
I have been trying to get parts info from BOBCAT on the compact tractors for quite some time (months...).
Bobcat reply: "contact your local BOBCAT dealer".
I was at the dealer yesterday buying some filters. I asked if there was a possibility of getting a printout of the WIRING DIAGRAM for my CT230. Response: It would be VERY SMALL when printed, you might consider buying the ($100.00) shop manual.
After spending about $90 for a broken hydro filter flange, filter, and lost hydro fluid (gold?) - which hangs, unprotected, below the transmission housing, AND about $200 for other filters, etc., I was above my "tractor budget" right now.
Does anyone know what the problem is with, specifically BOBCAT, in keeping part numbers/diagrams a "secret"? Like the previous POST, I think it would be beneficial to the dealers to have customers call with a specific part number.
(I was told by another BOBCAT dealer that the "reason" they didn't give that info to customers is that people tended to order the wrong part, then blame THEM! Well, if YOU order the wrong part, the who do you think should accept blame?)
...Off the soapbox....
Bobcat reply: "contact your local BOBCAT dealer".
I was at the dealer yesterday buying some filters. I asked if there was a possibility of getting a printout of the WIRING DIAGRAM for my CT230. Response: It would be VERY SMALL when printed, you might consider buying the ($100.00) shop manual.
After spending about $90 for a broken hydro filter flange, filter, and lost hydro fluid (gold?) - which hangs, unprotected, below the transmission housing, AND about $200 for other filters, etc., I was above my "tractor budget" right now.
Does anyone know what the problem is with, specifically BOBCAT, in keeping part numbers/diagrams a "secret"? Like the previous POST, I think it would be beneficial to the dealers to have customers call with a specific part number.
(I was told by another BOBCAT dealer that the "reason" they didn't give that info to customers is that people tended to order the wrong part, then blame THEM! Well, if YOU order the wrong part, the who do you think should accept blame?)
...Off the soapbox....
i myself completely disagree with this type of billing , it is only my opinion and i will explain why. if you look at the following table copied directly from irs.gov it lists the time THEY say it takes to complete a tax return , now to most people this might seem correct , but i can tell you with over 20 years experience they are nowhere close to what it takes. no way it takes as long as they quote for a tax return , be it a simple 1040 or an extremely complicated one . my rate is $150.oo per hour if i charged what they say per return i would have to charge for ( estimate ) 8 hours of my time to prepare each return that would be $1200.00 per return ! now who in there right mind would pay that much for a simple tax return( let alone a complicated one )? no one thats who ! Now nobody thinks there is anything wrong with paying a skilled mechanic $120.00 but pay the accountant or attorney $150.00 an hour and they are ripping you off. why should i pay an accountant $150.00 an hour when i can buy turbo tax for 39.99 ? These shop labor fees and labor rates are not in line with what is being performed and i dont agree with any of them . this is only MY opinion and we all know about opinions !
well the table wouldnt copy correctly so here is a link to the table.
1040 (2009)
Cami
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 183
- Location
- Ladysmith, British Columbia
- Tractor
- Don't have one of my own! I work on other people's machines.
@thetaxman: You have a good point.
It's funny how things like perceived value, or being intimidated by the task to be done can really effect your leverage as a service provider.
I liken using Turbo Tax for a simple tax return to equipment operators doing their own simple service and repairs; something you just can't compete with. It's just a matter of how far people will go with their DIY; biting off more than you can chew gets expensive no matter what you're doing.
Don't laugh too much, but as it happens, the most expensive DIY mistake I ever made involved doing my own taxes many years ago. It helped teach me not to begrudge paying for professional help. If I learned a lesson from that, could I deduct my tax bill as a tuition expense?
Every industry has its Turbo Tax, if you look. Those inexpensive MIG machines and DIY muscle car/off road television shows have taken a lot of money out of the hands of professional welders. It's not right or wrong, but does effect how I bill some jobs.
With rate schedules like we're talking about, it depends what others are doing, and what the market will bear. Speaking generally, if everybody in a certain skilled profession follows the same pricing guidelines and it's also a seller's market then there's no incentive to undercut; that's what can allow this pricing to work. It would be called a cartel if it were engineered to be this way, but the competition bureau types won't care if these conditions are created naturally; without intent.
By the way, have you looked at Value Based Fees: How to Charge, and Get, What You're Worth by Alan Weiss? Because of an aversion to claptrap I don't generally read business books, but a friend liked it so much that he held me at gunpoint and made me read it. It's food for thought along this topic.
Well, it's back to work......
It's funny how things like perceived value, or being intimidated by the task to be done can really effect your leverage as a service provider.
I liken using Turbo Tax for a simple tax return to equipment operators doing their own simple service and repairs; something you just can't compete with. It's just a matter of how far people will go with their DIY; biting off more than you can chew gets expensive no matter what you're doing.
Don't laugh too much, but as it happens, the most expensive DIY mistake I ever made involved doing my own taxes many years ago. It helped teach me not to begrudge paying for professional help. If I learned a lesson from that, could I deduct my tax bill as a tuition expense?
Every industry has its Turbo Tax, if you look. Those inexpensive MIG machines and DIY muscle car/off road television shows have taken a lot of money out of the hands of professional welders. It's not right or wrong, but does effect how I bill some jobs.
With rate schedules like we're talking about, it depends what others are doing, and what the market will bear. Speaking generally, if everybody in a certain skilled profession follows the same pricing guidelines and it's also a seller's market then there's no incentive to undercut; that's what can allow this pricing to work. It would be called a cartel if it were engineered to be this way, but the competition bureau types won't care if these conditions are created naturally; without intent.
By the way, have you looked at Value Based Fees: How to Charge, and Get, What You're Worth by Alan Weiss? Because of an aversion to claptrap I don't generally read business books, but a friend liked it so much that he held me at gunpoint and made me read it.
It's food for thought along this topic.Well, it's back to work......
Bird
Rest in Peace
We might as well do our own tax return since the tax laws are so complicated that no one knows what the law is anyway. It's been interesting for me so far. I've always done my own return. I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember the real short form; a card that had a total of 10 lines or less. One year (1960 or 1961, in August I believe) I got a letter from the IRS that my return was one that was randomly selected for audit and that it had an error on line (#7 I think) and that I had another few dollars refund due that would come separately, and it did. But I got out my copy and there was no error. Then in 1969, for the first time I decided to let H&R Block do my return. In those days, no computers so no tax software. The guy did the return and I paid him, but then he had to send it in to their office to be checked and then the office sent it to me to sign and mail. When the office sent it to me, they said they found some errors and "corrected" them. Actually what they did was combine my forms with someone else's. The only similarity was that the other guy's last name started with the same letter as my last name, and in addition to our regular salaries we both had exactly the same amount of cash income. It came in the mail on a Saturday and the H&R Block main office was closed for the weekend. So I re-did the return myself, got it in the mail, then called H&R Block Monday and told the guy what happened. He said they'd re-do it, and I told him I already had. His comment was, "Yeah, you can do it yourself, after you have our figures." I told him I was mailing it back to him, for him to look it over, and if he thought anyone could use their figures for anything, forget it. Otherwise, I wanted a refund of what I had paid them. I never heard from them again, but a check for the refund came in the mail.
One year, I tried to budget for a personal computer on my job, but the boss cut it out of the budget. So I bought one with my own money and took it straight to the office to be used on the job only. So each day, for 3 days, I called the IRS to ask if I could deduct in on my income tax return. 3 days, 3 calls, 3 people, 3 different answers. One said yes, one said no, and one said yes, but had to spread it over 3 years.
In 1989, I retired and sold our house in January. I did the return, but was quite willing to pay for expert help, so I made an appointment and went to one of the biggest firms in Dallas. They guy there looked it over and asked questions for an hour, then said he couldn't help me; that I had it all done and done correctly. But at least, he also did not charge me anything. However, in July, 1990, I got a letter from the IRS wanting $173.65 "penalty" for "underpayment of estimated tax for last year". I had never done any estimated tax forms, but guess I should have when I had the capital gain on the sale of the house in January.
Then when I bought the place in the country and tried to make a little money farming, I did my own return, then left it with a CPA to check. Again I was more than willing to pay for expert advice, but when I went back to get it, he said there was no charge because it all looked good to him.
I was in Walmart this morning and Hewitt Jackson is set up there to do tax returns. Out of curiosity, I asked the young lady for an estimate of cost to do a simple return, but itemized deductions and she estimated "in the neighborhood of $200". I reckon I'll keep on using TurboTax.
It's been interesting for me so far. I've always done my own return. I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember the real short form; a card that had a total of 10 lines or less. One year (1960 or 1961, in August I believe) I got a letter from the IRS that my return was one that was randomly selected for audit and that it had an error on line (#7 I think) and that I had another few dollars refund due that would come separately, and it did. But I got out my copy and there was no error. Then in 1969, for the first time I decided to let H&R Block do my return. In those days, no computers so no tax software. The guy did the return and I paid him, but then he had to send it in to their office to be checked and then the office sent it to me to sign and mail. When the office sent it to me, they said they found some errors and "corrected" them. Actually what they did was combine my forms with someone else's. The only similarity was that the other guy's last name started with the same letter as my last name, and in addition to our regular salaries we both had exactly the same amount of cash income. It came in the mail on a Saturday and the H&R Block main office was closed for the weekend. So I re-did the return myself, got it in the mail, then called H&R Block Monday and told the guy what happened. He said they'd re-do it, and I told him I already had. His comment was, "Yeah, you can do it yourself, after you have our figures." I told him I was mailing it back to him, for him to look it over, and if he thought anyone could use their figures for anything, forget it. Otherwise, I wanted a refund of what I had paid them. I never heard from them again, but a check for the refund came in the mail.One year, I tried to budget for a personal computer on my job, but the boss cut it out of the budget. So I bought one with my own money and took it straight to the office to be used on the job only. So each day, for 3 days, I called the IRS to ask if I could deduct in on my income tax return. 3 days, 3 calls, 3 people, 3 different answers
. One said yes, one said no, and one said yes, but had to spread it over 3 years.In 1989, I retired and sold our house in January. I did the return, but was quite willing to pay for expert help, so I made an appointment and went to one of the biggest firms in Dallas. They guy there looked it over and asked questions for an hour, then said he couldn't help me; that I had it all done and done correctly. But at least, he also did not charge me anything. However, in July, 1990, I got a letter from the IRS wanting $173.65 "penalty" for "underpayment of estimated tax for last year". I had never done any estimated tax forms, but guess I should have when I had the capital gain on the sale of the house in January.
Then when I bought the place in the country and tried to make a little money farming, I did my own return, then left it with a CPA to check. Again I was more than willing to pay for expert advice, but when I went back to get it, he said there was no charge because it all looked good to him.
I was in Walmart this morning and Hewitt Jackson is set up there to do tax returns. Out of curiosity, I asked the young lady for an estimate of cost to do a simple return, but itemized deductions and she estimated "in the neighborhood of $200". I reckon I'll keep on using TurboTax.
anyone and i mean anyone that goest to h&r block or jackson hewett deserves what they get ( not trying to be an ahole ) but those companys charge more than any cpa with 20 years experience would charge, they charge for every entry they make on a tax return ( i know this as many times i took my return or friends returns in just to see what they would charge compared to what i charge) they will do the whole return then tell you how much it is, what the **** kind of crap is that ? also 90 % of the so called preparers are people who just finished taking their 6 week course and then get hired, thats why when the other gentleman who went there said the guy had to show his boss then the boss mailed return to him. also most people now go for the rapid refund because they need the money , this may be the BIGGEST ripoff in the country, they charge rates so high its insane and a fee to get the loan plus the fee to do the return and in all reality any preparer that files your return if he also does electronic filing will get your refund deposited into your bank account in an average of 10 days. most of my clients are the same year to year with new ones by word of mouth only & the only ones that leave are the ones who go see Jesus and they dont care about taxes anymore anyhow.
i charge a firm but fair price and stand behind all my work , mistakes that i make (hey everybody makes a mistake now and then ) i pay the interest and penalties the client pays just what he would of owed if the return had no mistakes.
i believe there is a place for turbo tax as you say but dont try and do a complicated return on it, cmon if you make a mistake you have no one to back you up or better yet maybe keep you out of jail.
ok im done, everyone have a great evening im beat i did 400 1099's and 250 w2's today and im not wanting to look at this computer screen NO MORE
i charge a firm but fair price and stand behind all my work , mistakes that i make (hey everybody makes a mistake now and then ) i pay the interest and penalties the client pays just what he would of owed if the return had no mistakes.
i believe there is a place for turbo tax as you say but dont try and do a complicated return on it, cmon if you make a mistake you have no one to back you up or better yet maybe keep you out of jail.
ok im done,
everyone have a great evening im beat i did 400 1099's and 250 w2's today and im not wanting to look at this computer screen NO MOREdave1949
Super Star Member
The interdependence is something to think about, it seems there is an equity factor that is missing.
The $350 or so is beyond the pain level of most. I know I would be pulling on my coveralls
I've done my own maintenance on the tractor, but I don't mind paying $30 at the Ford dealer to change oil and filter on our auto. If you added on $100 for more oil, more expensive filters, etc., paying $130-$150 might seem more reasonable on a small tractor.Surely dealers are aware of that. They could do more routine service volume at lower shop rates, hire more people who are trained well enough for routine work and supervised by a more experienced person. That might work in a location where the volume is there to support it. Probably not many locations have enough volume for that.
It's possible they are trying to tell us they really aren't interested in having that work? I really don't know. If an experienced tractor tech has to stop in the middle of a transmission rebuild or whatever, to do an oil/filter change, that's not so good for business, or tractor tech retention either.
Dave.
dave1949
Super Star Member
We might as well do our own tax return since the tax laws are so complicated that no one knows what the law is anyway.
That's my theory. Fill it out as best you can and send it in. If it's wrong they will tell you. If it is wrong or needs an additional form, or you owe more tax, you can't hire anybody for the penalty and interest the IRS might charge you. If it's wrong and you paid too much, they send a check plus interest - which you must claim in the next tax year
For my relatively simple taxes, it makes sense. Maybe the best way to get the tax code simplified is by sending in millions of wrong tax forms ?
Dave.
Hondapro
Bronze Member
The interdependence is something to think about, it seems there is an equity factor that is missing.
The $350 or so is beyond the pain level of most. I know I would be pulling on my coveralls
Surely dealers are aware of that. They could do more routine service volume at lower shop rates, hire more people who are trained well enough for routine work and supervised by a more experienced person. That might work in a location where the volume is there to support it. Probably not many locations have enough volume for that.
It's possible they are trying to tell us they really aren't interested in having that work? I really don't know. If an experienced tractor tech has to stop in the middle of a transmission rebuild or whatever, to do an oil/filter change, that's not so good for business, or tractor tech retention either.
Dave.
I think you hit the nail on the head.The $30 auto dealer oil change is really a good deal,the dealer is making next to nothing on that.The idea is they may find worn tires,a bad battery,etc that they can make some profit on.
IMHO the tractor industry will not have the volume of work to be able to offer the same type of service.
