Global Warming News
- Thread starter KB9UDE
- Start date
- Views: 108676
- Status
Chuck52
Veteran Member
I don't see VA coverage as "socialized", but then I don't see medicare, which I pre-pay for, as "socialized" either. My father, older brother and son all served in the military. They earned their VA coverage. I figure by being good and productive citizens of this country we all earn some benefits. I'm willing to pay what they cost, we're just discussing who I pay. Right now I pay an outfit called Coventry to pay my medical expenses. They get to decide what I pay and what I get. They do not provide that service for my benefit; they provide that service to make money, which I do not object to. In general, I don't object to paying for services I need, or might need. I'm not fond of over paying for such things. The health insurance industry is one of the most profitable parts of this miserable economy. I figure I am over paying. Competition might bring down costs, but my employer does a pretty fair job of shopping for deals now, and my costs keep going up. I worry that competition among the health insurers might be like the competition among the gas companies. There are several different gas companies represented in this town. The cost of a gallon of regular is the same, to the penny, at most of them....I think I can get $0.05 off if I buy both groceries and gas at HyVee! And, no, I am not suggesting that the oil companies should be nationalized. I like the general idea of a free market economy. We don't have one, but it is one of those feel good ideas. I see health care as a special kind of commodity, which should be and is regulated to a large extent already. Apparently you see regulation by price as the best way to apportion all "scarce resources". Meet me in a sealed room, with a limited oxygen supply, and bring your wallet.
Chuck
Chuck52
Veteran Member
Just had a great thought! One recurring theme I've seen is that every citizen should perform some kind of service early in life. Some suggest everyone should serve in the military; others point out that not all are suitable candidates for the military and might actually degrade our military, but that alternative service should be performed. Then we would all qualify for VHA!
Chuck
Chuck
Loren49
Veteran Member
I believe in the "free market" principle for businesses that are relatively easy to enter. This was almost everything 200 years ago. It was clear by the early 1900s that many companies (trusts) controlled the market alone or in collusion with other major players. When what they control are essential services the free market system has serious problems. What is keeping companies from fixing prices, etc. - governmental regulation. What would you suggest? What if the company who controls the electric distribution system in your area doubled there charge in a year. Who would you turn to?
Mike PA - no need to argue but I feel that the "trickle down" theory only works for what happens when we feed the donkey all the good grain and the rest of us share what trickles to the ground. Your theory and my theory are debatable but I don't believe that we'll come to a consensus. I believe that facts show that the distribution of wealth in this country was significantly accelerated by the recent tax policy. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable.
Loren
Mike PA - no need to argue but I feel that the "trickle down" theory only works for what happens when we feed the donkey all the good grain and the rest of us share what trickles to the ground. Your theory and my theory are debatable but I don't believe that we'll come to a consensus. I believe that facts show that the distribution of wealth in this country was significantly accelerated by the recent tax policy. Whether that is a good or bad thing is debatable.
Loren
dave1949
Super Star Member
Good Morning,
Did you note I said 'used to be glorious places of learning'. I am sure Prokop knows the history of his native country before the **** invasion and pre-communism (1948-1989). What is now the Czech Rep. has a very turbulent history going back to the beginning of the second millenium.
Still, the capital cities of Central Europe such as Prague were historically great cultural centers. They may return to their former status.
From wikipedia:
Situated on the Vltava River in central Bohemia, Prague has been the political, cultural and economic centre of the Czech state for more than 1100 years. For many decades during the Gothic and Renaissance eras, Prague was the permanent seat of two Holy Roman Emperors and thus was also the capital of the Holy Roman Empire.
Also proud to be an American, eventhough millions of my countrymen think Budweiser is actually beer
I am obligated to defend their rights to drink it.It is disengenuous however, to compare the healthcare of a late-stage communist country to anything we are discussing. I know you like the word 'socialism', but perhaps I should stick to 'universal' healthcare to make the distinction, semantically at least. There are many socialized aspects of how we provide and pay for US healthcare already. We do have, and have had for many years, publically supported/funded universities that provide doctor and nurse training. Is that socialized medicine?
Dave.
FallbrookFarmer
Platinum Member
A little different spin this morning. WHAT ABOUT AIG
Yes I agree they should be in charge of our medical!
I told a friend of mine who plays around in penny stocks about two years ago, if you want to make some money, watch AIG. He told me I was nuts, He was laughing at me when it went down to around .35. I told him watch what happens, While Obama was telling them they it was only
him that stood between them and the lynch mobs.
Funny thing, the price of AIG went up about 5 fold in about a week. 500% profit, would you like that?
What was the secret that I knew that AIG would NEVER go belly up. I'll let you in on it. Take a WAG as to which insurance company insures congressional pensions.
Don't look behind the curtain my friend, just join the lynch mob that our great leader keeps stiring up.
FallbrookFarmer
Platinum Member
You just can't get away from the fundemental fact that other developed economies typically spend half what we do, provide universal coverage and have equal or better outcomes.
This is not some big mystery boys....
On the cost side these systems typically have not-for-profit insurance administration, lower cost providers, employ systems to track patient care and they use comparative effectiveness research to guide patient treatment.
And while I'm at it
This is a political problem for the US. It has very little to do with what works.
In the mean time we're going broke.
Firstly, I believe your talking about the VA NOT the VHA.
And yes it is a well run entity, at least here in San Diego, not so in some other parts of the country.
I don't think the comparison, between a health care entity, such as the VA, which was created to REWARD veterans who have served there country, and a system of
government largess which is at odds with our constitution(IMHO).
And if we are going broke, Does it have anything to do with the fact that we are now running TRILLION dollar deficits? And now we want to add another entitlement program? Sounds like a plan.
FallbrookFarmer
Platinum Member
Good Morning,
Along with hockey sticks, your chart leaves out some very relevant data, How about posting the deficit run up by the current administration?
Please explain to me the phrase "the real cost of gasoline"
I'm pretty sure that I pay "the real cost of gasoline" when I go to the pump(OK ,I use diesel, but that's another story)And the other phrase "conscientious use" of gas.
Does that mean I have to go to confession after I take the family out for a Sunday drive?
And I think I have found an exception to your research that didn't reveal a country that covered 100% of health care costs..........
CUBA. Hey ,I'm on the next boat. WOOHOO FREE HEALTH CARE!!!!!!!
FallbrookFarmer
Platinum Member
Good Morning,
Did you note I said 'used to be glorious places of learning'. I am sure Prokop knows the history of his native country before the **** invasion and pre-communism (1948-1989). What is now the Czech Rep. has a very turbulent history going back to the beginning of the second millenium.
Still, the capital cities of Central Europe such as Prague were historically great cultural centers. They may return to their former status.
From wikipedia:
Situated on the Vltava River in central Bohemia, Prague has been the political, cultural and economic centre of the Czech state for more than 1100 years. For many decades during the Gothic and Renaissance eras, Prague was the permanent seat of two Holy Roman Emperors and thus was also the capital of the Holy Roman Empire.
Also proud to be an American, eventhough millions of my countrymen think Budweiser is actually beer
It is disengenuous however, to compare the healthcare of a late-stage communist country to anything we are discussing. I know you like the word 'socialism', but perhaps I should stick to 'universal' healthcare to make the distinction, semantically at least. There are many socialized aspects of how we provide and pay for US healthcare already. We do have, and have had for many years, publically supported/funded universities that provide doctor and nurse training. Is that socialized medicine?
Dave.
Yes Praha is a great city,(If you go definitely, try Budvar, not the export stuff,) And if you want too see a city that has embraced capitalism in a big way, I can't think of a better example, There are brand new western style shopping centers springing up, a renewed sense of hope(Has that word been co-opted by certain US Politicians?) Ask the people that lived under communisim
if the socialized health care that they had is one that they want to return to.
And please, calling socialized medicine universal health care is another of the political tricks make the bad medicine go down easier(Did I just make a pun?)
You may think it "disingenuous" of me to compare a soviet system of health care to "what is being proposed"
You are correct, for now. What about in fifty years from now,and you and I are not around any more to contrast and compare about what was and what is.
I will give you only one example to prove my point.
In 1913 when the income tax was instituted, only a few millionaires paid any tax, and the form was a single page. Do I have to say any more?
And yes, I do feel that it is a national shame that anything
coming out of a certain brewery in St. Louis is actually called beer.
dave1949
Super Star Member
Don't mention taxes this time of year.
That brewery may be in St. Louis, but it's not even 100% American anymore
They do have the nicest horses in the beer world, you must admit.The History Channel did a segment on beer. I believe Budweiser began substituting rice for wheat and barley at the time of WWII rationing, and have continued with rice or a rice blend since.
Some German brewing history:
Reinheitsgebot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dave.
- Status