Loved Ones - Toyota

[patrick_g]

C They apparently have a weird (well, weird to me) system, so that if the applicant is making a lot of mistakes, it can be a long test, but if the applicant is getting the right answers, it just stops. They said he only missed one question, so it cut off after 20 questions, said he passed, and they couldn't even tell us which one he missed.

[/B]

Bird, I have been the "victim" of one of those new fangled computer based tests. It was the GRE (Graduate Record Exam.)

Of course a computer could be used to administer a traditional (dumb)test and let you take the time to answer all the questions but the new fangled test method takes advantage of the computers capabilities a bit more. There are questions of varying difficulty. The computer gives you a series of questions and so long as you get them right it ratchets up to the harder or more complex questions in that area or topic.

I was used to traditional tests where you want to be sure to answer all the easy questions before taking time on the harder ones. Well, the ADAPTIVE test method that use a little of the computer's capabilities above just a display and response gathering device is designed to find out how well you know the various subject areas and doesn't waste time on easy ones if you are getting harder ones right.

In a more complete testing scenario the questions can ratchet up in difficulty and complexity until you miss some and then ratchet back down a bit. The goal is to use your time taking the test to establish your level of understanding and command of the subject matter not waste time on questions too far above or below your level.

From your description it sounds like the test he took was a simplified version of what I described. Oh, by the way, the computer version of the GRE was the absolutely most difficult most draining test taking experience of my entire life. I left that session feeling like imps and demons had put my head in a vise and pounded on it with ball peen hammers. That was in 1994 and I think I am just beginning to recover from the emotionally scaring experience.

Our 2004 Toyota Prius continues to perform extremely well. Our satisfaction with this vehicle is the highest of any car or truck we ever had and that includes all sorts of vehicles including a 165MPH Sunbeam Tiger, A 1962 1/2 VW bug, A nice Lincoln, a MB turbo diesel, a rotary engined Mazda, 1943 Ford Jeep, and on and on. I know of no recall on this car. I think the dealer has done things when we were in for our lifetime free oil changes. I know that once they disconnected the BIG battery (not the little 12 volt that runs the computer, accessories, lights, etc.), cleaned everything and put special anti-corrosion stuff on the posts and clamps. No charge to us. I suppose there may have been some other items they were instructed to attend to but none at any cost to us. One of our biggest maint hassles with this car was not knowing how to open up the key fob/remote controller to replace its little battery when it began to lose range after 5 years of use.

Pat

 

[two_bit_score]

Well..As a recovering import service manager, I can tell you that they rely on silent recalls..The customer complains about an issue, and we said.."that shouldn't happen"..then we'd fix the issue, with factory approval, free of charge..happened all the time. The customer walked away happy as could be, thinking Wow they really take care of their customers!!

I never liked this approach, but that's the way the business works.

The domestics could never get away with what the imports do on a daily basis. This is why I never trusted the media reports on how superior the imports are.

Do the domestics have issues from time to time?..Sure. But tow trucks also pull stuff into Toyota and Honda garages all day long. You just don't hear about it because the owners think the problem has to be an abnormal/one time problem.

The lights are finally on. Thank God.

Very interesting insight you provide. Would you mind expounding a little bit on the comment "domestics could never get away with what the imports do on a daily basis"?

 

[patrick_g]

I must be way too naive or dumb or something but I fail to understand why fixing a customer's car for free is such a bad thing.

I have noticed that sometimes with other goods that if a unit goes in for service for one reason or another but there are outstanding (unaccomplished mods against that model) kits, upgrades, modifications, or whatever then the additional unrequested work is done to bring the unit up to the higher level the manufacturer wants to have it at at no charge to the customer and often with no comment or notice to the customer.

For example, the mfg notes an unacceptable level of failure of some plastic elbow that fails prematurely from engine vibration and under the hood heat due to a substandard injection molding process. So every time a car comes in with that model elbow the "bad" part is removed and replaced with the upgrade part. If I were the customer I'm pretty sure I'd not be upset by that whether or not I was supposed to be informed. I think so long as the parts and or labor applied were essentially "ongoing assembly line quality control", stuff that could have been done during manufacturing without my expecting to be specially notified then a little after the fact QC wouldn't bother me.

If anyone has any specific instances where the customer was somehow harmed by the practice please feel free to mention them instead of general non specific rumor level innuendo. I also don't understand why there is a difference in the acceptability of this practice between foreign named brands and American named brands. I say "named brands" because my Dodge 1 ton diesel was made in Mexico and lots of "foreign" cars are made in the USA.

Pat

 

[SPYDERLK]

Well..As a recovering import service manager, I can tell you that they rely on silent recalls..The customer complains about an issue, and we said.."that shouldn't happen"..then we'd fix the issue, with factory approval, free of charge..happened all the time. The customer walked away happy as could be, thinking Wow they really take care of their customers!!

I never liked this approach, but that's the way the business works.

The domestics could never get away with what the imports do on a daily basis. This is why I never trusted the media reports on how superior the imports are.

Do the domestics have issues from time to time?..Sure. But tow trucks also pull stuff into Toyota and Honda garages all day long. You just don't hear about it because the owners think the problem has to be an abnormal/one time problem.

The lights are finally on. Thank God.

I must be way too naive or dumb or something but I fail to understand why fixing a customer's car for free is such a bad thing..

Pat

Well, maybe blind in this case. Your scenario has almost no relation to what timswi was talking about.
larry

 

[neucam]

Not to beat this thread to death, but as a former software engineer that has created programs not so dissimilar to one used in a car I can tell you that when you have mechanical components involved and computer software, you can never achieve 100% reliability. Just look at your Microsoft Windows system, would you want Microsoft Windows running your car, probably not. Some of todays cars fancy automation comes with a price. I did like the older cars, but I like to travel in a newer car. Admitting to a software bug would be death to a company like Toyota.

 

[dmccarty]

Unless these cars are fully drive by wire I don't understand how putting the tranny in neutral would not solve the problem.

I also thought that whenever the brake was applied on an auto tranny the tranny was taken out of drive. Guess it depends on the vehicle.

I do remember the hatchet job that 60 Minutes and the press did on Audi back in the 80's. I lived in South Florida at the time which had a HUGE elderly population. I saw several accelerations in the grocery store parking lot where I worked. No Audi though. Just a person who could not tell which was the go pedal and the brake. One lady drove through the gym wall at my school. She went into an office. Thankfully the person inside the office heard the engine roaring, looked up and saw the small tree outside moving DOWN so the person ran out of the office as the car ran into the office.

My Ford has a CPS that goes bad about every 65K miles. When the CPS goes the engine dies. Just replaced the CPS for a second time. When the first one finally died on me I was making a turn. Not fun when you are turning and braking when the engine dies in a 7,700 pound truck. But the truck was "driveable."

I had a throttle stick on my first car at a stop sign. Stopped. Went to go and the engine red lined. Scared me witless. Thankfully I had a manual tranny and just put it in neutral and turned off the engine.

My truck has had what I shall call UnAttended Steady State Engine RPM(UASSER). I drive a lot with cruise control. A couple of times I have rapidly taken the truck out of gear. It is a manual. There must be a switch on the clutch pedal because if I am fast enough I can go into neutral but the engine RPM will stay steady. Kinda scary for a second or two while you wonder why the engine is still at 2000 RPM but you are slowing down. Taping the brakes or turning off cruise control solves the problem.

Seems like a simple fix for these type of problems. Just make all cars use a manual tranny.

Later,
Dan

 

[Bird]

I drive a lot with cruise control

I don't know of anyone who uses their cruise control anymore than I do; a great invention in my opinion. I can remember when it was not an available option on manual transmissions; only automatics. But then when I bought a new 1993 Ford Escort station wagon with the manual 5-speed to tow behind the motorhome, it had cruise control and never had a problem with it.

 

[patrick_g]

Well, maybe blind in this case. Your scenario has almost no relation to what timswi was talking about.
larry

Larry, of course you are entitled to your opinion (as I am) no matter how wrong either of us may be but... instead of just hurling insults like how I must be blind (I'm not yet but working on it pretty good) why not give me an example or two so I can get smarter instead of just absorbing insults.

I just don't seem to see what the problem is, fixing a car and not charging the customer. Are we implying the problem that was fixed was a giant liability issue and it was done in secret to avoid potential litigation or what?

I'm trying to understand not ridicule anyone or beat my chest.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Not to beat this thread to death, but as a former software engineer that has created programs not so dissimilar to one used in a car I can tell you that when you have mechanical components involved and computer software, you can never achieve 100% reliability. Just look at your Microsoft Windows system, would you want Microsoft Windows running your car, probably not. Some of todays cars fancy automation comes with a price. I did like the older cars, but I like to travel in a newer car. Admitting to a software bug would be death to a company like Toyota.

I retired as a computer scientist from a Gov lab and have a MS in Software Engineering and have taught SW engineering classes to seniors in the computer science program at a university BSCS program (evening classes as I was working full time.) I have never ever seen a better example of its type of programing than the Toyota Prius (mine is '04 model.)

Think a car running WINDOZE (Spell it like it is) is scary? I went to sea as an observer/consultant for a few days on a US Navy ship (a Gator, a ship that hauls Marines and their hover craft and vehicles etc. for amphibious assault) that was run by networked MS Windows PC's. I thought that was getting toward the scary end of the spectrum.

In 6 years and 50K+ miles with our Prius we have experienced one unexplained glitch and that was not a danger to safety and happened while parked. I can't honestly say where the fault was, software bug, hardware glitch, operator error, or what (wife was driving alone and was parked in parking lot. It was overcome without incident and has not repeated nor has there been any other unexplained phenomenon.

If I could get my hands on the source code for the Prius software there is only one thing I would want to change. That is to have the cruise control, when the car coasts with the engine off faster than the set speed, apply regenerative braking to hold the speed at the set speed, putting the generated energy into the battery of course.

Pat

 

[ccsial]

Well..As a recovering import service manager, I can tell you that they rely on silent recalls..The customer complains about an issue, and we said.."that shouldn't happen"..then we'd fix the issue, with factory approval, free of charge..happened all the time. The customer walked away happy as could be, thinking Wow they really take care of their customers!!

That's how I want to be treated. Since I gave up Lincolns and Caddy's for Acura and Lexus I just never get to go to the service departments anymore to see how they handle things.