Proper Way To Line Chimney?

[arrabil]

So we had two guys out last summer to get quotes to fix the chimney.

Guy 1 wanted to put in a flexible titanium liner and fill the remainder. $1250.

Guy 2 wanted to pound out the current ceramic liner, put in a rigid titanium liner, and fill the remainder. $2450.

Both guys called the other guy an idiot.

The cheaper guy said I would get more expensive quotes where they rip out the ceramic liner and put in a more expensive tube. He said that was unnecessary and a waste of money. Who cares if you can stand on the tube he said.

The more expensive guy said the cheaper guy does sub-standard work and that the tube has to be rigid to guarantee it isn't touching the chimney sides before filling. And that the old liner has to be removed to put in enough filler material to guarantee there is no fire hazard from the heat.


So which is the actual truth? Is there really a fire hazard from the cheaper method? I can't see how there can be since the current chimney was not a fire hazard until the liner cracked to pieces but what do I know...

Thanks.

 

[beenthere]

Do both methods meet code in your area?

 

[arrabil]

I didn't call the township... good point. Now that you mention it I guess I should call the homeowner's insurance too.

Can you imagine that two chimney pros with lots of local customers would be doing something not to code? I would imagine the expensive guy would have definitely jumped on that if the cheaper option were not to code. He definitely had plenty to say about the other guy.

 

[beenthere]

I wouldn't deal with either one of them, if they are running down someone else. Just would go find someone who can do it without badmouthing another. Makes me real suspicious. But you may be up against not having that option. Good luck with it. Not an easy decision to make, as something could go wrong with either one of them.
But be sure they have good insurance that will protect your roof and property, as well as thier hide if something happens. Also, hopefully a valid warranty into the future if the job doesn't do the trick (or the trick doesn't do the job )

 

[arrabil]

Oh yeah, Guy 2 is definitely NOT getting my business for his inability to be professional.

Guy 1 was a gruff ex-marine who didn't come across as "friendly" but I can't say I had any problem with him. He cleaned the chimney while he was here and did a professional job. And he didn't insult anyone in particular, just the more expensive method in general.

But I really just want to know what I should be looking to get done before I choose a person to do it. I didn't realize I would get such a wide gap in prices and methodology.

Both guy warrantied the liner for life and their work for as long as I am the owner of the home so that wasn't an issue. Guy 2 just scared me because he was saying how wrong the cheaper method was. Probably just looking to suck money out of my wallet but that is what I need to know.

 

[JB4310]

There is no one right way, I've worked on alot of chimneys, masonry repairs/rebuilds, but never really got into the relining side of it. I can tell you the vast majority of liners I've seen don't require existing clay liners to be removed.

What are you venting, gas, oil, wood? High quality Stainless steel flex is usually adequate, filling around them is usually not even necessary from what I've seen.

Get some more quotes/ideas if you can. Around here at one time chimney lining contractors where generating the vast majority of consumer complaints, There were some real scammers when lining first became popular years back. Its better now and prices have stabilized at ~$1,000. even less on simple jobs. mechanical contractors are doing the easy drop ins for much less.

At the time the lining prices were sky high I could go in and replace the clay liners for less money. that's a difficult dirty job but doable for the right money.

JB.

 

[arrabil]

Both guys told me I have the simplest possible setup for a wood stove... one story above ground, half way down the basement wall, right angle to the wood stove pipe. They both said they could work from a ladder instead of getting on the roof.

They also both said that titanium was better than SS and the first guy showed me the catalog he'd order from and the cost difference was minimal.

Is a 4" pipe good enough?

 

[JB4310]

Both guys told me I have the simplest possible setup for a wood stove... one story above ground, half way down the basement wall, right angle to the wood stove pipe. They both said they could work from a ladder instead of getting on the roof.

They also both said that titanium was better than SS and the first guy showed me the catalog he'd order from and the cost difference was minimal.

Is a 4" pipe good enough?

Again it's not my specialty but I've probably seen more than most.

I've never seen a 4 inch liner, unless it was just to vent a hot water heater. Maybe a pellet stove but not a wood stove IMO. What size pipe collar on the stove?

6 inch is the minimum I've seen. What is the reason for you needing the liner? Most common reason now is with high efficiency appliances the stack temps in older larger flues is to low, which can cause draft problems as well as interior deterioration due to higher water content in exhaust. That's why just dropping in a smaller diameter liner does the trick. (smaller than the typical 8"x8" or 8"x12") insulation around the pipe would keep temps higher if necessary.

JB.

 

[arrabil]

Guy 2 said the 6" liner requires removing the ceramic liner to get a minimum of 2" fill all the way around it. Thats why I asked. The wood stove pipe is 6".

We need a liner because our ceramic liner is cracked really bad. The home inspector recommended not using it, Guy 1 who cleaned the chimney recommended against it too.

We've lived here eight years.... its about time we made use of the free energy our forest produces in spades yearly. Some TBNers would've had a heart attack if they'd have seen what I've given away to the neighbors.

 

[JB4310]

Wood stoves are also not my specialty, but I don't know if you could ever use that stove to anywhere near it's capacity choking down the exhaust that much.

I'm not saying your chimney may not need a liner, but I will tell you when ever I was called to give 2nd opinion on if a liner was needed due to damaged clay liners (as opposed to the low stack temp reason) Most of the time I felt a liner was not necessary, but was very careful about telling customer that IMO there was no reason to spend all that money. I was protecting myself, there was nothing it for me either way. if anything ever happened I might be held liable.

Now if some one asks for 2nd opinion I explain to them that I can't say they don't need a liner, even if I thought it might not. To me for my own use as long as there's a hole up through the middle and the clay liner is not collapsing or has other serious problems I'll use it. All clay liners will look a little rough after so many years and there is a joint every 2 feet, some unscrupulous contractors will zoom in on those joints or surface spalling with their "chim cams" and show the disturbing images to the customer to scare them.

You should get a couple more opinions IMO. How old is the house and what size flue is in there now?

JB.