Has the economy affected you and your tractors?

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   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #151  
They were also concerned about unbridled power of a central government.

The first goal of a business is to make a profit. Without profit, nothing else can be done.

Correct Mike. No profit why stay in business? It is not the responsibilty of corporations to supply us with jobs. If there is a demand for the product, and the profits support it, they will hire as many as needed to support the profit. Nothing wrong with that.

Would anyone pay a kid to $500 a week to cut their lawn?..No, because the labor is not worth the benefit.
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #152  
In respect to my earlier comment, 40K per year now is still pretty slim. 10, 15, 20 years ago, it was easier to manage, but I think for a young family now, with 40K total income, it would be very tight. Btw, my wife and I are celebrating 25 years of marriage this September 21. Our priest didn't give us a test, but we did go thru a workshop with about a dozen couples. I don't know about the other folks, but I know I married "up".

I'm sure a lot of it depends on where you live, too. Here, cost of living is cheap, but unemployment is high. I think a young couple with good financial discipline could make it. However, that means getting your priorities in place. I.E. no cable or satellite, cheap cell phone, used cars, no video game systems, big screens, etc... until your house is well within paying off.
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #153  
They were also concerned about unbridled power of a central government.

The first goal of a business is to make a profit. Without profit, nothing else can be done.

You are absolutely correct. But they also understood that governments are influenced by concentrations of economic wealth, that these concentrations were frequently at odds with the welfare of most people, and that even kings, perhaps especially kings, were sway to it. So they limited government power in many ways, but companies, and money, find ways to get their interests served. The colonists throwing tea into the harbor were actually protesting the beneficial taxation policies granted to the East India Company by the British government. Simplified, but that was basically what was going on there. Corporate favoritism in tax law by government to an international conglomerate, that eventually created enough negative effects and feelings in the populace, led to protest and revolt. (Other causes existed, of course.) In that light, the recent healthcare law is just the same. Insurers chasing profits just ticked off too many folks eventually, because they just pretty much dispensed with any pretense of trying to do good for society, and went the way of doing too much harm, at least in the health area. Or so many think, including myself. So far, insuring houses, tractors, airplanes, and other stuff, they aren't there yet. But financial products sellers are almost there, and so we see the calls for consumer protection laws to be strengthened again, like they were back when the SEC was created because scammers were selling shares of "the blue sky". All of this, we have done before. I am always amazed how our Founders got so much right. Not everything, but so much. I am less concerned about the power of government, than I am about the power of money to control it. But that's my 2 cents.:)
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #154  
They were also concerned about unbridled power of a central government.

The first goal of a business is to make a profit. Without profit, nothing else can be done.

Profit at any price? Much can be done and profit, the ideas are not mutually exclusive.
Dave.
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #155  
You are absolutely correct. But they also understood that governments are influenced by concentrations of economic wealth, that these concentrations were frequently at odds with the welfare of most people, and that even kings, perhaps especially kings, were sway to it. So they limited government power in many ways, but companies, and money, find ways to get their interests served. The colonists throwing tea into the harbor were actually protesting the beneficial taxation policies granted to the East India Company by the British government. Simplified, but that was basically what was going on there. Corporate favoritism in tax law by government to an international conglomerate, that eventually created enough negative effects and feelings in the populace, led to protest and revolt. (Other causes existed, of course.) In that light, the recent healthcare law is just the same. Insurers chasing profits just ticked off too many folks eventually, because they just pretty much dispensed with any pretense of trying to do good for society, and went the way of doing too much harm, at least in the health area. Or so many think, including myself. So far, insuring houses, tractors, airplanes, and other stuff, they aren't there yet. But financial products sellers are almost there, and so we see the calls for consumer protection laws to be strengthened again, like they were back when the SEC was created because scammers were selling shares of "the blue sky". All of this, we have done before. I am always amazed how our Founders got so much right. Not everything, but so much. I am less concerned about the power of government, than I am about the power of money to control it. But that's my 2 cents.:)

Well Stated!
But I think I see a flaw in your logic,
The East India company was a wholly owned subsidiary of the British Government, The Original Tea Partiers were not so much protesting a corporate decision, as they were against a TAX imposed on them, that they had no decision over. Does that sound familiar?
I think you and I are on common ground as to the inequities of the tax code and the power that it gives politicians, Again, how about a flat tax that would take away from the politicians the power to help their friends and punish their enemies.
BTW Welcome to TBN.
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #156  

What does congress's decades long misuse of the Soc Sec. trust fund have to do with what a lender charging 30% is worth to our society?

Even back in biblical times, it was recognized that extremely high interest rates were not good things in society.

Check it out:
Usury, Money, Rule of Law, Debt Release

I am amazed how some would toss out thousands of years of societal traditions, what it means to be human - for the sake of what - exactly? What magical world are you offering up? Please describe this wondrous place.
Dave.
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #157  
What does congress's decades long misuse of the Soc Sec. trust fund have to do with what a lender charging 30% is worth to our society?

Even back in biblical times, it was recognized that extremely high interest rates were not good things in society.

Check it out:
Usury, Money, Rule of Law, Debt Release

I am amazed how some would toss out thousands of years of societal traditions, what it means to be human - for the sake of what - exactly? What magical world are you offering up? Please describe this wondrous place.
Dave.

Just read the link that Brin posted, A lot of scary stuff, to be sure.
Just to let you guys know, just got back from my friend who has all the tractors for sale , and he told me that he has sold 6 tractors in as many weeks, and the gentleman that was there, was buying a D6, and he worked for UPS and said that he has been working 60 hour weeks, a good sign if business is starting to move.
Don't know, at this point, I am still very pessimistic, but I sure HOPE that I am wrong. If not will just have Change left. (I know, I know, bad joke:))
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #158  
As far as I can tell, lower taxes would not have made my tractor purchase decision any different, because the last 2-3 years were income challenged in my activities.

Of course, profits are internalized, but all too often the costs of business are never borne by the business, nor for that matter the customers, and the prices customers pay are artificially low, and profits exceptionally high, as a result. If the true downstream costs of economic activity are actually brought into the cost of production, costs would go up. Is the cost of heart disease or diabetes captured in a Big Mac? It hasn't been. But when laws are designed to begin to mandate that these attributable costs accrue more to the producers, the change in economic relationships is fought tooth and nail. That is the battlefield we expect, and live in. But these changes are coming, whether we like them or not. And nations ahead of us taking steps to account for carbon production, to use one example, will be more efficient, and profitable with less wasted money, than those laggards like us who will maintain artificially skewed cost/profit relationships for decades to come.

In my opinion, only people are people, and legally constructed organizations of people, be they companies, or unions, or whatever, are not people and do not have constitutionally protected fundamental rights, period. They only get what benefits and rules we choose for them to have under law, but those benefits do not rise to "rights" the Founders intended. Our governing "watchmen" come and go, some certainly are crummy and some not, but most of them, while they are there, succumb to the money they need to raise and the interests behind the money. Election funding changes could lessen that narcotic.

As to home ownership, yes, price is a barrier that, if way high, prices folks out. My three young children will have to deal with that barrier, and others do now. Lawmakers, rightly sometimes and wrongly also, craft tax policies to make ownership more, or less, affordable and available to people. I was simply pointing out that the major parties we have today have had the expansion of ownership in their written platforms and as oft-repeated goals since practically forever. For some reason, politicians like home owners. And they like dangling that carrot to get votes.

I like owning my home, although the new roof I need this summer will like my wallet more than I want, I bet. No need to roll dice on that one, my wallet loses.:D

Sorry about jumping around but just got back.
In terms of "true Downstream costs", I've an idea, how about we impose a tax after each transaction or change in
ownership, so that way as the product progresses in the market, we can tax it as in adds value. That way the "true" value will reflected in the price. Boy, yesterday, I couldn't even spell ekonomist, and now I are one.:)
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #159  
Sorry about jumping around but just got back.
In terms of "true Downstream costs", I've an idea, how about we impose a tax after each transaction or change in
ownership, so that way as the product progresses in the market, we can tax it as in adds value. That way the "true" value will reflected in the price. Boy, yesterday, I couldn't even spell ekonomist, and now I are one.:)

You have no future as an economyst. True cost capture does not equal tax.
Dave.:)
 
   / Has the economy affected you and your tractors? #160  
You have no future as an economyst. True cost capture does not equal tax.
Dave.:)

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what the hey:
WHAT is true cost capture?
And if I have no future in eekonmics, how about me being an ecdysiast?:)
 
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