Old Diesel-Heads Going Gas

[GreatWhitehunter]

And the debate wages on. I've had this fight in my head over the last few years. When I bought my first diesel in 04 diesel was alot less than gas and was fairly consistant. It has since skyrocketed and fluctuates alot. I 100% agree that the EPA is going the wrong direction with the DPF and other emissions stuff. I was leaning towards the v-10 but felt I'd be dissapointed going back to gas. So I ended up getting a dmax. I do tow alot for business and pleasure. I really don't look at any vehicle as an investement and the cost to operate a diesel is quite a bit more. But for towing there really is no comparision.

Matt

 

[radman1]

I had (sold to brother for farm truck) a 1999 F250 V10 and now a 2008 F250 6.4L, job 3, diesel. I like both of them. The 1999 V10 was rated at 275 hp and new versions are near 350 hp. Both pull trailers 80% of the time. I bought the diesel (350 hp) when the rebates were very large. Could not find a V10 at the time. I paid about $1500 more for the new diesel than I paid for the V10 when I bought it new because of the large rebates and dealers were begging to get rid of the big new trucks. The V10 made about 9-10 mpg pulling, the diesel 11-12 mpg pulling. Empty, the V10 made 12-13, and the diesel 16 mpg. Both are 4x4, crew cabs, lariat versions.

I only drive 9-10K miles per year. After having both, the gasser would be hard to beat on a financial basis for my use. Repairs for diesel, maintenance and upfront cost is much higher for diesel. The potential diesel repairs could be cost prohibitive. The V10 is a great motor for Ford and has been extremely reliable. Unless you pull a lot and high mileage user, the diesel is difficult to justify. I will say, the gasser trade-in value still is not good. Mine 1999 V10 was in excellent condition with 87K miles and the dealer only offered $6000 for trade in. Hence it became a farm truck. The gasser's still bring significantly less for trade in compared to a diesel. For the OP, he should be able to find great deals on a used gasser compared to a diesel.

 

[Big Bri]

Chris,
I thought the 250 would ride a little nicer, when i read the specs it seems that the 350 and 250 would tow the same amount of weight but the 350 would hold 300lbs more in the bed, i didn't think it was worth the ride difference for 300lbs.
I don't have a 4x4 now, and have gotten stuck in my front yard on grass, that is one of the reasons i think i would like to have a 4x4 but i know i will never take it "off road" so do i really need it. the 3k jump to go to the 4x4 will hire a lot of wreckers to pull me out I do admit that i do like the way the 4x4's look.
some thing else i was disappointed in when looking at the new trucks is that you can't get a 5 or 6 speed stick shift any more. If i buy this new truck it will be the first NEW vehicle that i would own that didn't have a stick.

Why a F-250 when you currently have a F-350? Also if you have a 4x4 now and you are considering a 2 wheel drive you will be disappointed even if you only use it 3 time a month. You will kick yourself the first time you are stuck. I have had 3 F-350 diesel that were 4x4 and SRW with high GVWR packages and they are as tough as they come. My 06 has 11,500# and will easily handle my 18,000# bumper pull trailer and can also take 2 tons in the bed if needed.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

Check the math again on the difference in payload. The tow rating is the same for a F-250 and a comparable F-350 SRW but the payload can be as much as 1,500# difference. I have a 2004 F-250 PSD 4x4 with a GVWR of 10,000#, the largest you can get in a F-250 in Short Bed Extended Cab. The truck weighs 7,500# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel leaving 2,500# for the bed. The problem is when I tried to tow my boat, 15,600# it sunk the rear about 8" or so and made the steering light.

I then bought a 2005 Dmax 3500 SRW 4x4 and did not know much at the time obviously. I thought just because it was a 1 ton it would be better. Come to find out it had a 9,900# GVWR and weighed just over 7,000# allowing 2,900# in the bed and did no better than the F-250 which I still had.

I got rid of the Dmax before it was one year old and ordered a 2006 PSD 4x4 F-350 SRW Extended Cab Short Bed with 11,500# GVWR. It weighs 7,600# and allows 3,900# in the bed. The trailer tows like a dream and only drops the rear maybe a few inches. The steering is rock solid. It rides about the same as the F-250 but not as good as the Dmax with its IFS. The F-350 is one tough truck. I have towed up to 25,000# with it and it feels like it could take more. I have also towed a Single Wide Mobil Home for a church that was donating it to a family in need about 5 miles. Not sure what it weighed, maybe 14,000# or so, but it was 70' long and wide. Even though it was only 14,000# it had tons of tong weight. It had no issues. I would not have even thought about hooking it or the 25,000# load to either my F-250 or that Dmax. The both had the power but not the suspension to handle it.

Chris

 

[Big Bri]

Check the math again on the difference in payload. The tow rating is the same for a F-250 and a comparable F-350 SRW but the payload can be as much as 1,500# difference. I have a 2004 F-250 PSD 4x4 with a GVWR of 10,000#, the largest you can get in a F-250 in Short Bed Extended Cab. The truck weighs 7,500# with me in it and 3/4 tank of fuel leaving 2,500# for the bed. The problem is when I tried to tow my boat, 15,600# it sunk the rear about 8" or so and made the steering light.

Chris

off on a side note why do they call that a 3/4 ton truck?

i'll go back and look at the numbers, i really don't want to be looking at the stars while towing.
Thanks

 

[Diamondpilot]

off on a side note why do they call that a 3/4 ton truck?

i'll go back and look at the numbers, i really don't want to be looking at the stars while towing.
Thanks

Years ago the ratings like 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton ect meant something. You could haul 1,000# in a 1/2 ton. 1,500# in a 3/4, ect.

Now days with the HP, payload, towing wars that is out the door. My 1/2 ton is rated at over 1,700# in the bed and like I said my 3/4 can haul 2,500# while my 1 ton can haul nearly 2 tons.

Chris

 

[deerefan]

I am one of those grey area folks. I could have gone either way. I tow once a month on average, my F250 either has 800 lbs of horse feed in the bed, a 12k lb cap. bumper pull trailer behind it 50% of the time loaded with 50-60 bales of hay or my JD 5103 w/ implement @ about 5500-6000lbs (about 8k lbs w/ trailer) or our 3 horse bp trailer (3000 lbs empty, about 7000 lbs w/ 3 horses and gear). It more than handles these loads with ease. It also leaves me room to upgrade to a gooseneck or larger horse trailer. We also take it on long trips because it is very comfortable. I will never own a 2wd truck again, especially not diesel. There is entirely too much weight up front that can make driving on wet grass a chore. Now, I probably could have gotten away w/ a 1/2 ton, but it would have needed the max trailer package to be effecient and safe. I looked at an F150 4x4 w/ the 5.4 and 9400# tow cap. and a Titan w/ the same set up as the ford. Just not enough truck, especially with the tractor and trailer, which does not squat my F250 but is quite noticeable behind the other 2. We bought our truck used b/c we only put 9-10k miles a year on it. It ia an 06 and had 51000 miles when we bought it. A lot of guys say i could easily do what I do with a 1/2 ton and I do not disagree, but the 3/4 ton allows room for growth. For example, I have been shopping for a small dozer (Komatsu D21 or similar) and feel really comfortable with it behind my F250. It would have been outside the towing limits for a 1/2 ton. If I am not mistaken, a gas 3/4 ton is really no better than a gas 1/2 ton in towing cap., maybe even a little worse. Hope this helps some.

 

[Big Bri]

Chris you were right the numbers were off by more than 300lbs that i thought.
kinda weird that the 11500 GVWR truck will hold less weight than the 11000 GVWR truck.
I'm going to see if can find the spec. on my 97 DRW and see what it was rated for.
My wife think i'm a kid in a candy store looking up and reading about all this. . . she'll probably get mad because i'll be doing this for 6 months before i buy

 

[flusher]

The EPA has, IMO, gone TOO FAR and more importantly too fast.

I would not consider a "new" diesel. By the time you factor in the added purchase, operating and maintenance costs, you lose over a gas engine. Yes, resale value IS higher, but you don't get back 100% of the added up-front cost, so you lose there. You pay more interest (money you *could* be spending on other things) to finance the more expensive diesel. You need more oil, more expensive filters, DEF and to clean the DPF periodically. None of that applies to a gasser.

The 5.4L 3V makes WAY more WHP and WTq than the 460/454s of by-gone days, and they are good enough for me in terms of efficiency.

Now, a Gen 1 or 2 Dodge CTD would be the best of both worlds, but not available "new" or anything even close to it.

My 2001 F150 short cab long bed has the 4.6L Triton V8 and auto tranny and is rated at 7000 lb towing with a bumper hitch. I've read that the 5.4L Triton is actually a stroked 4.6L and the 3-valve 5.4L Tritons have a considerably higher towing rating (9000 lb or so). Do you think the 5.4L 3V has enough low end WHP and WTq to handle that size load efficiently and safely?

 

[FlaDon]

Chris you were right the numbers were off by more than 300lbs that i thought.
kinda weird that the 11500 GVWR truck will hold less weight than the 11000 GVWR truck.
I'm going to see if can find the spec. on my 97 DRW and see what it was rated for.
My wife think i'm a kid in a candy store looking up and reading about all this. . . she'll probably get mad because i'll be doing this for 6 months before i buy

Yep, depending on models the load capacity can be eaten up by the truck itself. In the case of mine, it is rated at 11,400 and loses 6242 to the truck itself.