Sickle Bar Sickle advice for rookie?

[dwhiteykc]

I'm close to buying either a MF-135 or MF-85 locally, and need some guidance regarding mowing around my pond. Its got a fairly wide dam, slope ranges from 10-20 degrees towards the water and 30+ down the back sides. From what I've learned on this site & others, a sickle may be the safest option for mowing - at least in keeping me out of the pond or rolling down the back! I know the sickles themselves are pretty dangerous, but I plan to hit the water-facing slope and upper part of the back slope with the sickle, then from level ground, mow up the back slope as far as I can with the sickle. If I leave a couple foot strip in between, I'm not too proud to clean that up with a string trimmer.

I've got a tight budget, and have been checking Craigslist & implement dealers for sickle bars. From what I've learned here, anything with a Pitman arm/stick won't work for me. Any recommendations for 3pt versus pull-behind/dolly? And commonly available used models that may work? Today in my area for example, I see a JD 450, Ford 14-92, Ford 501, NH 451, ranging from a couple hundred to a thousand bucks.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sweettractors]

I'm close to buying either a MF-135 or MF-85 locally, and need some guidance regarding mowing around my pond. Its got a fairly wide dam, slope ranges from 10-20 degrees towards the water and 30+ down the back sides. From what I've learned on this site & others, a sickle may be the safest option for mowing - at least in keeping me out of the pond or rolling down the back! I know the sickles themselves are pretty dangerous, but I plan to hit the water-facing slope and upper part of the back slope with the sickle, then from level ground, mow up the back slope as far as I can with the sickle. If I leave a couple foot strip in between, I'm not too proud to clean that up with a string trimmer.

I've got a tight budget, and have been checking Craigslist & implement dealers for sickle bars. From what I've learned here, anything with a Pitman arm/stick won't work for me. Any recommendations for 3pt versus pull-behind/dolly? And commonly available used models that may work? Today in my area for example, I see a JD 450, Ford 14-92, Ford 501, NH 451, ranging from a couple hundred to a thousand bucks.

Thanks in advance!

Pitman type will mow about 35 degrees above and below horizontal. Belt drive with the dyna balance type drive heads will mow 90 degrees vertical and about 70 degrees below horizontal. From what you describe, the 3 point hitch 7 ft would be best on the 135 MF. We have not had good luck out the 85's. Ken Sweet

 

[flusher]

I'm close to buying either a MF-135 or MF-85 locally, and need some guidance regarding mowing around my pond. Its got a fairly wide dam, slope ranges from 10-20 degrees towards the water and 30+ down the back sides. From what I've learned on this site & others, a sickle may be the safest option for mowing - at least in keeping me out of the pond or rolling down the back! I know the sickles themselves are pretty dangerous, but I plan to hit the water-facing slope and upper part of the back slope with the sickle, then from level ground, mow up the back slope as far as I can with the sickle. If I leave a couple foot strip in between, I'm not too proud to clean that up with a string trimmer.

I've got a tight budget, and have been checking Craigslist & implement dealers for sickle bars. From what I've learned here, anything with a Pitman arm/stick won't work for me. Any recommendations for 3pt versus pull-behind/dolly? And commonly available used models that may work? Today in my area for example, I see a JD 450, Ford 14-92, Ford 501, NH 451, ranging from a couple hundred to a thousand bucks.

Thanks in advance!

I bought this Massey Ferguson 41 sicklebar (7ft) at auction for $600.



Spent another $150 on new sickle sections and guards. Also $20 for a spare drive belt. It's a good mower. I use it in my oat hayfield.

I bought this Allis Chalmers 80T pull behind sicklebar (7-ft) for $150 from a neighbor. Everything works, including the hydraulic ram for raising and lowering the cutting bar. Need to replace the sickle sections.







I bought this 1951 Farmall Super A tractor for $1300--including a mid-mount sicklebar mower (6-ft). Haven't had a chance to use the mower yet. The guy who sold me this mower works for CalTrans and got this mower from work (excess equipment sale). It was use to mow ditches and highway interchanges.







Any of these mowers would probably do your job.

 

[flusher]

Forgot to mention that I also have a 1964 MF-135 diesel --Deluxe model with MultiPower ($3600 in Jul 06). Haven't used it with a sicklebar yet--pto clutch problem needs to be fixed.





This is a modified field tractor that sits low for orchard use (shorter front spindles, BFG 18.4-16A rears--18" wide, 16" dia rims). This is the type of tractor I'd use for mowing on slopes--real low center of gravity and wide rear tires.

 

[rbargeron]

.......Today in my area for example, I see a ....... NH 451.......

I'm a fan of the New Holland 451. It has a brilliantly simple knife drive (no pitman), and it uses the up and down motion of the tractor's 3-point hitch to multiply the lift of the bar (no hydraulics needed). Also it can be assembled/adjusted off-center to be outside rear tires that are set wide. Most 451's have 7 foot bars, but some have 9 footers. Good luck with your search. DickB

 

[Farmerford]

I agree with rbergeron that the New Holland 451 is the best choice because the knife drive (the most troublesome and expensive part of the mower) is simple and easy to check for condition. To give credit where it is due, the knife drive mechanism was actually invented in the mid 1800's by a Russian mathematician named Pufnuttii Chebyshev who was looking for an arrangement of arms and levers that would convert rotary motion to straight line motion without slides, cross-heads, etc.

I first experienced the NH drive on the farm many years ago and when I needed a sickle mower for some rural land I bought I first looked at the NH. I was turned off by the price of a new one ($8,000) and the attitude of the nearest NH dealer. So I looked quite a while for a used one, but the local ones (Craig's List and the State Farmers Monthly) were snapped up pretty quick. I talked to Mr. Sweet, but he couldn't seem to keep one in stock long enough for me to buy it.

Then a John Deere 350 came up nearby on EBay and I bought it. The JD was my second choice because the knife drive mechanism (known as a "wobble box" because of the motion of the principal part) is more complicated than the NH, more difficult to inspect without a teardown, and has four proprietary parts vs one (or maybe two) for the NH.

I got lucky and the JD turned out to be a good buy ($2,000). JD still carries every part for it, and my local JD dealer is very good to work with. So I am satisfied with the JD 350 (so much that I bought a second one from the same seller).

I dissasembled the JD wobble box and inspected it carefully. I am satisfied that with proper maintenance (greasing) the proprietary parts will outlast me.

If defense of JD (and International Harvester, Massey Ferguson, and some others) who use the wobble box design, the complexity allows it, in theory, to eliminate all vibration, while the NH design is like a one cylinder engine, the very best you can do is size the counterweights so the vibration is evenly divided between the vertical and horizontal planes.

Prices are crazy. If a knowledgeable seller is involved, a good NH451 or JD 350 will bring $1,500-$2,000. But you occasionally see one for half that, and those usually sell very quickly.

Finally, I bought the three point hitch (JD 350; NH 451) vs the pull type (JD 450,; NH 456?) because I like the increased maneuverabily. The disadvantage of the TPH models are greater time to hook up and significant offset weight on the tractor. That should not be a problem for a MF 135, but I don't think a compact utility tractor has enough weight or strength to deal with the offset load.

 

[rbargeron]

....To give credit where it is due, the knife drive mechanism was actually invented in the mid 1800's by a Russian mathematician named Pufnuttii Chebyshev ........

Back when TBN's "Reviews" section was in it's first incarnation, I wrote a review of the NH 451 in which the design of its straight-line drive mechasim was attributed to Chebichev (there is some disagreement among Kinematics texts about the English spelling - see Kepler, et. al.). Unfortunately the early TBN attachment reviews have apparently since been deleted. I can assure the TBN community my post above is not without proper basis. So there. Dick B

 

[Farmerford]

DickB:

Your response suggests that I offended you with my reference to Chebychev(Chebyshev; Chebichev; whatever). I assure you I did not intend to, and apologize if I did. I am always amazed (humbled) by the intellects of mathematicians like him at a time when my ancestors were using outdoor toilets and reading by candlelight. Indeed, I searched and read virtually all your posts (except the Chebichev one, obviously) because you give such concrete advice about lots of things, and in particular Kobota tractors (front axles and front driveshaft seals come to mind quickly), of which I have too many.

On the subject of knife drives, it would be good to hear from the Allis Chalmers fans. There are several on here and though I never used one, I remember as a child on the farm watching the neighbor's "Twin Flywheel" drive or something like that AC sickle mower and being impressed with how much smoother it was than our New Holland. Are those mechanisms reliable, and are parts available? I have only seen one advertised locally over the past couple of years.

I also see a few International Harvester sickle mowers with wobble drives, but I have no knowledge of quality or parts availability. It seems to me that most wobble boxes will have several complex castings, forgings, or machined parts that would be much too expensive to replace with a custom made part.

As you said at the start of this conversation, that's what makes the New Holland the best choice.

 

[flusher]

DickB:

Your response suggests that I offended you with my reference to Chebychev(Chebyshev; Chebichev; whatever). I assure you I did not intend to, and apologize if I did. I am always amazed (humbled) by the intellects of mathematicians like him at a time when my ancestors were using outdoor toilets and reading by candlelight. Indeed, I searched and read virtually all your posts (except the Chebichev one, obviously) because you give such concrete advice about lots of things, and in particular Kobota tractors (front axles and front driveshaft seals come to mind quickly), of which I have too many.

On the subject of knife drives, it would be good to hear from the Allis Chalmers fans. There are several on here and though I never used one, I remember as a child on the farm watching the neighbor's "Twin Flywheel" drive or something like that AC sickle mower and being impressed with how much smoother it was than our New Holland. Are those mechanisms reliable, and are parts available? I have only seen one advertised locally over the past couple of years.

I also see a few International Harvester sickle mowers with wobble drives, but I have no knowledge of quality or parts availability. It seems to me that most wobble boxes will have several complex castings, forgings, or machined parts that would be much too expensive to replace with a custom made part.

As you said at the start of this conversation, that's what makes the New Holland the best choice.

My AC 80T sicklebar needs some work on the Twin Flywheel drive. Last time I used it I heard funny noises coming from that thing. I'll take it apart in a week or two and see what's up (it's my backup mower and the winter oat harvest will start in early May around here).

 

[rbargeron]

.......Your response suggests that I offended you.......

Whoa, Nellie! False Alarm! My tongue was jammed firmly into my cheek while I was tapping out that reply... no offense taken and I'm sorry it came across that way. I was mostly wondering where the attachment reviews might have gone. BTW, I enjoy reading your thorough lucid writing too. Take care, Dick B