At Home In The Woods

[Coyote machine]

I'm the guy someone asked about regarding Panasonic brand fans. I have seven of them in two houses in two different states. Most are in my VT home & barn building. I also have a HRV in the barn. That stands for heat recovery ventilator. I've had Broan, Nutone and other brands and finally ripped them all out and replaced them with consistently standardized Panasonics due to their features, price point and warranty, quietness, etc. All my plumbing contractors and electricians swear by them, not at them and I've had no noise issues with what they're hung against etc.
Its just my opinion but the box stores, especially H. Depot sell contractor grade speck house junk.
I run a ceiling fan and white noise generator in my bedrooms to cancel out outside noise from the street in my CT home and in VT I do the same to cancel out early morning construction noise from trucks and saws, etc. on my site. So what I'm saying is if excess noise bothers you do yourself a favor and buy the best product you can afford and put it on a timer, or timers like I have. I have the 2 13Watt florescent bulbs on the same timer switch with the fan. The next switch is a timer for the fan supplied heat which quickly warms up a large bath, and keeps it warm on cold mornings/nights.

Regarding the clay on the footer level vs. gravel of both or neither or whatever. Clay is useless for drainage of any kind. It is good for lining ponds for that exact reason. Use Geotex fabric that is not permeable and then throw stone/gravel over it. Bring the Geotex high enough on the foundation wall/footer area to prevent water from getting behind it. Taper the grade away from the house if at all possible to maximize the reduction of water near the foundation/footers.

Paint/trim, etc. Use what is easiest to install that meets your budget and looks good as a finish end product. We use simple casing wood that is finger jointed. The carpenters are sanding it to break mill glaze, then cut it to length needed AFTER priming it on all sides. (Our painter for the house addition went on to other jobs to keep himself out in the public's eye after being here nearly an entire year). The barn trim is not as crucial as the house's so with instruction from the GC and me the carpenters are saving me some money and getting things done properly though not quite as neatly as a pro painter might. To me the crucial thing is straight hung drywall, clean corners, properly prepped and primed trim woodwork and good installation of same. The caulk issue is this use the best quality caulk like GE silicone for bathrooms around tubs etc. Use Dap alex, that is acrylic latex which is extremely good product and readily available. DO prime, then caulk. You can prime the walls, then cut in the first coat of finish, then caulk, then put on the final coat without having to go near the caulked trim. Some caulk is paint able but it is better to have it adhere to the prime coat and then cut in next to it, or as stated above.
Once one moves in furniture, drapes/curtains. pictures, bookcases etc. the things you see during construction are less noticeable except for the most AR types. Granted there are none of those on TBN- right?:laughing:

 

[Obed]

Regarding the clay on the footer level vs. gravel of both or neither or whatever. Clay is useless for drainage of any kind.

That's just the point. If I fill with clay around the garage and slope it away from the house, it should funnel rainwater away from the foundation. It seems to me that gravel up against the foundation will just encourage rainwater to drain toward the foundation, not away from it.

As I've been thinking about this scenario today, the foundation around the garage is just like the foundation around a ranch house with no basement. Unless you have a lot that slopes toward the (non-basement) house, a drain tile beside the foundation doesn't seem necessary. Putting gravel around the foundation without a drain tile seems to me to be a very bad idea for the reasons I've stated earlier.

Obed

 

[Coyote machine]

You can do whatever you want- but have you lived in a house for 25 years with a basement with clay all around the foundation, in the driveway and all over much of its surrounding land? I seriously doubt it. Its not just about runoff or drainage, its also about natural evaporation and porosity of the soil around your footings, garage etc. Frost heaves and water will get beneath the clay and heave whatever it can. I suggest consulting with a soil engineer for your area or decide to do it your way. Its not my house.

 

[Obed]

We have drain tile, 12 feet deep gravel, and Bituthene waterproofing between the main floor garage and the basement wall. Around the rest of the basement concrete walls we have drain tile, 4 feet deep gravel, and Bituthene. Above the 4 feet of gravel, the walls are backfilled with clay dirt.

Is there anyone living in the southeast with construction experience who can comment? What do you use for backfill around your main floor garage foundation?

Thanks,
Obed

 

[radioman]

what brand of fans? I got some noisy cheap ones I would like to replace. someone mentioned once in a thread they liked some panasonic ones.

I had a noisy cheap one in my bathroom too. One time my wife forgot to turn off the fan for a week (wasn't home) and it burned out. I went to the local lighting and electric supply store and asked for a replacement motor for bathroom fan. They had 2 models, the expensive one and cheaper one- I found out the more expensive one is quieter so got that. I replaced the motor and it was so much queiter.

 

[nhkabotab7800]

As I've been thinking about this scenario today, the foundation around the garage is just like the foundation around a ranch house with no basement.

Obed,

so no living space below the garage correct?

since you have gutters and do not expect lots of run off, sorry for this, but perhaps the crushed stone would have been saficient. you are not realy worried about water getting thru into a finished space, it sounds like.

best advice i have seen is to ask the local site contractors what they do, or consult an engineer.

i think i would stay away from trying to creat a clay slope although i do see your logic...maybe over thinking this one?

of course up here in New England the soils are different, so what do i know

 

[Pops15]

We have drain tile, 12 feet deep gravel, and Bituthene waterproofing between the main floor garage and the basement wall. Around the rest of the basement concrete walls we have drain tile, 4 feet deep gravel, and Bituthene. Above the 4 feet of gravel, the walls are backfilled with clay dirt.

Is there anyone living in the southeast with construction experience who can comment? What do you use for backfill around your main floor garage foundation?

Thanks,
Obed

I'm not from the SE but I have a lifetime of construction experience. If you backfill with gravel and don't provide an escape route for the water (trench filled with clean stone or drain tile) you're just inviting trouble as the water could stand in the stone. You'll have a perpetually wet area around your footings which can lead to settling. If the water freezes you'll get heaving. Backfill with clay. Make sure you have a good slope away from the garage. Clay is the most waterproof soil there is. If you backfill and grade properly very little water will even penetrate the clay.
Unless your basement is below the water table you're over thinking this. You've done the right thing with the waterproofing, stone, and tile. Now if you grade it properly and use long kickers on your downspouts you'll never have a drop of water in your basement. Think of what you've done so far as insurance. Now think of backfilling with clay and grading properly to direct run off away from the house as prevention.

 

[Obed]

If you backfill with gravel and don't provide an escape route for the water (trench filled with clean stone or drain tile) you're just inviting trouble as the water could stand in the stone. You'll have a perpetually wet area around your footings which can lead to settling.

Pops, you are describing exactly what I observed when I dug up the gravel around the garage. We've had a dry month; there hasn't been much rain. It had not rained for several days when I started digging around the garage. The gravel and dirt next to the footers was WET, very wet! I wasn't really expecting it to be wet since there had been a number of days for the soil to dry. It was an unpleasant surprise to notice how wet it was by the footers but the wetness confirmed my suspicions and backs up your comments. Fortunately, this issue is being rectified.

 

[eepete]

We have red clay soil. House is Superior brand basement foundation walls, use 4" slotted pipe with a sock around it, at least 1' pea gravel, landscape cloth, then backfill with clay. Walls are sprayed with bituthene (black gunk). House has 4' overhangs, grade goes away from the house everywhere. Have a yard drains on one side to insure it all works.

The garage only has 1 side that gets rain/is exposed to the elements. I put a 4" slotted black PE pipe in a sock, pea gravel, landscape cloth, then backfilled with clay. The 4" pipe ties into the other footer drains. The goal was to keep the footer dry. Clay gives me runoff, footer drain takes care of what seeps in.

Where the 4" pipe leaves the footer, I transition into 3" smooth PVC drain pipe so it won't get damaged.

Where we had the full fill against the walls, I did another 18" of pea gravel, landscape cloth, then did the fill. That's two layers of cloth and the sock that the silt has to get past before the footer drain will get clogged.

Where I had pipes coming in from the outside, as I backfilled I built up a column of gravel until the pipes were covered. There was cloth vertically so the entire perimeter of the column was protected. That way there can be no build up of water pressure where the pipes come through the foundation wall. Covered the column with fabric, then clay. This is the sort of stuff you can do as the homeowner on site that is not likely to be done by various subcontractors.

All gutters dump into 4" smooth PVC to get the water well away from the house. Smooth PVC also means the gutter drains won't clog up. They also have the 1/4" per foot drop.

I'd take the area you dug out that was wet, put in the hard PVC drain pipe with the holes (the ones designed for septic systems), put a sock on it, a little gravel, cloth, then more gravel. You footer will be much dryer and it won't clog up. I'd go with the hard pipe because of how shallow it is and the extra pounding it will take from vehicles. Tie that into the other footer drains around your garage.

Pete

 

[Coyote machine]

What Pops and eepete says makes a lot of sense, especially if you are doing the other things they mentioned like the drainage tile and fabric. I got the impression you were only going to use the clay to make the water run away from the house.
If you're doing it yourself, (drainage tile) make sure to put the drain holes toward the ground, not the sky, to allow the water to seep up and flow out. It seems counter intuitive, but its actually the way it is supposed to be done.