Buying Advice Best engineering/technology in a tractor? Which manufacturers?

[BobRip]

Disclaimer: I am an engineer and have a lot of respect for the profession.

Engineering is just one small aspect of a product and yet has many aspects within it. One aspect is a lot of fancy features. This complicates the product and yet adds little to the usability and takes away life. Some companies over engineer products (I won't mention names but their initials are GE). They save a penny worth of cost and take a dollar's worth of value out of everything. This gives you a product where everything is worn out at the same time at a given design life (say 5 years). Since at your first failure, everything else is almost worn out, the product is disposable. I feel this is largely driven by marketing types. Their motto is "let's think short term".

Another aspect is testing. Brand new products (where many parts or most have been redesigned from previous models) may have some testing done, but nothing beats real world consumer use and then correction of the problems found.

The best of engineering (in my opinion) is a product that was designed with long life in mine (simple, high quality materials, input from users before and after design, analysis of previous failures and corrections for these failure, extensive laboratory and real world testing). Failures of these products are tracked and changes made in the design and manufacturing made to reduce or eliminate these failures.

So, what kind of engineering are you looking for?

 

[sld]

I am in the aircraft engineering field and the things that sticks out to me is that the final product is never exactly what the engineers want.

By the time Procurement and the bean counters get their say, and they have a lot of say, cheaper methods and parts are replacing more expensive but more robust designs.

Another thing I have noticed is the intended design life of a part. If the part is supposed to last 10 years, but testing shows it will last 20 years, then that is said to be over designed and too expensive. They will take cost out by making the design less robust. Even if it only cost a very small percentage to make it last 20 years. Then some guy gets a raise and a promotion because he can show he saved the company X dollars.

Happens all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if car, tractors and even boats are the same way.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I don't know anything about these tractors, but I thought the contrast between the car and the tractor of the same brand was funny.

BOB

 

[art]

My first post. This is a great forum.



So my question is.....
Which manufacturers have the finest engineering and technology in their tractors? When it comes to automobiles, I take my cars German or Japanese. I just love the engineering and technology that goes into these cars. I would like to have the same attributes in my tractor. I am an engineer by profession. Nothing gets on my nerves more than sloppy tolerances and overlooked design flaws. There are, arguably, more important traits to a tractor, I agree. But this is a priority for me, so I'd like to start here.

Thanks!

Chris, unfortunately some of the manufacturers have realized that there are a lot of tractors that don't need to be built for ten thousand hours of use in a five year span or for ten years! Much less the somple fact that many tracotors only get 100 hours a year on them and why not build for it!
There is already a car manufcturer that offers a warrantee for 100,000 miles, thats great but the bulk of the market is swapping out at 30 to 50,000 miles and it is non-transferable! Think of the savings to them in potential costs!

There are manufacturers of tractors that are already doing this.

 

[RoyJackson]

I don't know anything about these tractors, but I thought the contrast between the car and the tractor of the same brand was funny.

BOB

Lamborghini got his start building oil burners. Enzo Ferrari pissed him off somehow (back in the early 1960's) and he was determined to build his own sportscars. The rest is history...

 

[Redneck in training]

Lamborghini got his start building oil burners. Enzo Ferrari pissed him off somehow (back in the early 1960's) and he was determined to build his own sportscars. The rest is history...

Lamborghini wanted some modification but was told by Ferari that his cars are good enough as they are. So Lamborghini told him to keep his cars and that he will build better sport car (Miura 1967. The red car on the picture). In fact Lamborghini was (since 1945) and still is a tractor manuafcturer. It is part of Same-Deutz-Fahr Group.
Lamborghini car company is part of Volkswagen.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Lamborghini wanted some modification but was told by Ferari that his cars are good enough as they are.

Didn't he complain about the clutch in his Ferrari IIRC? Something about suggesting a design improvement based on his own tractor clutch design, and Enzo brushed him off.

 

[KWentling]

It kinda boils down to this, If a company cant run with the big boys and aluminum castings, they use cast iron/steel and if that dont work they use thicker cast iron/steel. Ken Sweet

I can see no advantage to using aluminum castings (even if it's painted green) unless it's for weight savings. Maybe savings in shipping costs factor in. I can see disadvantages including threaded holes needing steel reinforcement to hold a fastener (most don't), bearing fits wearing faster unless steel inserted (most aren't), and generally being more fragile (similar problem with cast iron). I have repaired lots more aluminum and cast iron housings than I have cast steel (although I'd rather weld the aluminum housing than the cast iron one). I have no idea why they (or anyone else) would use aluminum in anything bigger than a lawn tractor. Give me the cast steel and the heavier the better. That way I don't have to add so much ballast.

Kim (32 years experience in repair machine/weld shops)

 

[KWentling]

Keep my tractors simple and reliable. The more gadgets you add the more stuff to go wrong. Electro/hydraulic controls, sensors, relays, solenoids, all that stuff is great until some one of those little "things" shuts you down. Then add in a computer or two. Troubleshooting can get to be a nightmare or impossible for the shade-tree mechanic.

Kim

 

[dfkrug]

Give me the cast steel and the heavier the better.

Exactly. I am just an engineer/technician/mechanic/builder/tinkerer who wants
to know the reasons why certain choices were made. Especially when
everyone else uses steel. (Again, I am looking at a class of tractor that
the big boys all make: 3000-3500#, 30-35hp. Kubota, CNH, DaeDong,
etc. use steel. Only JD uses Al.)

Whatever comes out of the factory is the result of many compromises
between design eng, manufacturing, and product marketing. All are
important.