Spend my money on a welder.

[Mark @ Everlast]

That's pretty harsh words from someone that has never seen or used our products. And because you have preconceived notions about our product, performance, and quality, you are judging me as well?

We offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee policy, just for people who don't like our product once they get it. How can that be "snakeoil"? A company in business in an industry like this doesn't survive selling snakeoil for 5 years and growing. We aren't selling cosmetics or the latest blender here. No, we are marketing a product in an industry known for its tough and harsh realities.

I work hard for this company and know its heart. No one is out there to rip people off, especially me. I investigated things fully before I came aboard, and knew what I was getting myself into...I don't mind a good fight as long as its fair. But branding something/judging it without experiencing it first is called prejudice and that is what you are doing. We have people in the motorsports industry, agricultural industry, oil industry, fabrication, and basically all areas where you can find a welder in, using our product.

Actually the term snake oil isn't even close here. Our products work, perform, and do the job as advertised. There is no doubt or we would have a lot more than a negative post or two, unless I count people casting disparaging remarks about our products without any experience with them in the middle of an otherwise innocent thread. People want to weigh one post against countless other posts that say the contrary...

 

[BlacknTan]

That's pretty harsh words from someone that has never seen or used our products. And because you have preconceived notions about our product, performance, and quality, you are judging me as well?

We offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee policy, just for people who don't like our product once they get it. How can that be "snakeoil"? A company in business in an industry like this doesn't survive selling snakeoil for 5 years and growing. We aren't selling cosmetics or the latest blender here. No, we are marketing a product in an industry known for its tough and harsh realities.

I work hard for this company and know its heart. No one is out there to rip people off, especially me. I investigated things fully before I came aboard, and knew what I was getting myself into...I don't mind a good fight as long as its fair. But branding something/judging it without experiencing it first is called prejudice and that is what you are doing. We have people in the motorsports industry, agricultural industry, oil industry, fabrication, and basically all areas where you can find a welder in, using our product.

Actually the term snake oil isn't even close here. Our products work, perform, and do the job as advertised. There is no doubt or we would have a lot more than a negative post or two, unless I count people casting disparaging remarks about our products without any experience with them in the middle of an otherwise innocent thread. People want to weigh one post against countless other posts that say the contrary...

I'm not judging your product.. Only comparing it to other junk flooding our shores frtom the same location.
It's true, I have not seen a quality Chinese produced product yet. What I do see is unfair trade practices from China. Selling low quality merchandise here while closing their markets to our products in return... And we buy it to save a buck! Meanwhile that saved buck is starting to cost all of us $10 in lost jobs for Americans.
As for you personally.. I don't even know you. But you've obviously learned your Marketing 101 quite well, and push your product at every opportunity, and even when an opportunity does not present itself.
You may be right... Maybe this board is not truly about discussion amongst peers, but merely a vehicle for making money, and selling a willing audience to the highest bidder, as you say. I can't answer to that.
What raises the fur on the back of my neck is you explaining to me about what I don't quite understand... How the world has changed all around me and I'm just too stupid to realize it... How much sharper you are than the rest of us!

Well, maybe, but I ain't buyin' it!

And another point... Even the name "Everlast" reeks of condescension.. As if the American buying public is strupid enought to infer from your name that this Chinese product may well just last forever... And it might, but not in my garage.

 

[rjmack]

They manufacture to our specs and we visit the factory personally to inspect, mostly unannounced, 3 times already this year.

this is a critical difference... you don't even own the facilities that are building your product. you are basically a rebranding company. how can any reasonable person have any confidence in your long term viability?

what happens if the factory (that you don't own/control) now, turns out to be a lemon (like the last one) and needs changing a few years down the road? who will honour the warranty? who will supply the repair parts? what happens if the factory that builds them gets a better offer from somebody else and can no longer supply to everlast?

the more i read, the more 'everlast' is starting to look like the company that's 'not too big to fail'.

here's a link to the support network available to customers of a genuinely viable company. just scroll through the list of countries that are covered... or input your town, say any town in canada or the united states... and see the advantage of an organized support network.

all you need is the serial number of your machine, and the 'factory' will recognize it.

guaranteed.

Miller - Where to Buy - Distributor Locator

btw Mark,
if you can weld pipe (b pressure or tig-carbon/stainless/inconel/chrome) there's always room for a few more good welders up in northern alberta:thumbsup:

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Blackntan,

Where's your outrage at Miller and Lincoln for buying their product off shore?? Thermal Arc??? ESAB????

You're holding a double standard.

Its already been established that these main companies are sourcing their parts, many times from the same place we are...Yet you have conveniently side stepped that issue.

If you think me "explaining" is condescending, that's something I can do nothing about. That's your personal issue. You level flat accusations, without any evidence to support it and expect someone not to take issue? I never said anything about you being dumb. Never. You inferred something that I definitely was not thinking. However, You say things matter of factly based off your on perfect opinion as if its god's law? Yet if I lay out a case by case issue and address points of issue you find that condescending when you have no answer in return but more rhetoric?

As far as a name? Is this what you have to offer against my company? Attacking a name of a company??? At least we didn't name it SMILLER or Linkoln. :laughing:

Rjamack,

No we don't own our own factory, but neither does Lincoln or Thermal ARC which both DIRECTLY sell products made in China and other foreign companies. Miller sources parts there, which comprise a lot of their product....their issue is no better other than the fact they are bigger than us.

Again, we can source the parts. There are over 200 welding manufacturing companies in China...and many sources of parts. Again we are dealing with a 1.5 billion person country, with a larger capacity for sales than we could even dream of. They also sell to countries throughout the world. Somehow, people think that Miller and Lincoln are the only thing out there. Far from it. What is an additional point, is that the finest welding rods and wires are made in china but sold under hobart, lincoln and esab names.

When we went to our new factory, our arrangement with them was to continue the warranty on the older product, and fix them, which they have completely honored and actually used better parts... and returned to our warranty stockpile. So, again, the parts are common. We back the warranty on the welders, regardless of the factories backing.
We are not "rebranding" our products in the traditional sense. Our product is built very similar to the computer industries model. Each unit is manufactured to our specifications. We send designs and plans for building what we want, and we go back and forth, testing and revising until the product is completed. Again we have EE's on staff that oversee any technical issues. I won't say that some of our product is greatly changed from the off the shelf factory product we have available, but most of it is very different and all of it is made to meet American standards and specifications. But whether its ITW, lincoln, thermal arc, or whoever, there is rebranding going on. That really has no bearing on the subject...You can't level things against Everlast and then not turn around and do it to all involved. The fact is we have introduced several new products that weren't part of the factories lineup. We deal with more than one factory, though we do have a main factory.


I have no shortage of alternate factory contacts, many of which have been thoroughly vetted in our visits already. But the Chinese are learning that loyalty pays big US dollars, so that isn't much of an issue of them doing that. But we can take our designs and requirements and go elsewhere if we were to need to...without causing an issue in service.


But really as far as attacking quality of Chinese products, you can find melamine, chinese drywall, lead paint in toys etc...But turn the spotlight back on good old american companies... and their recalls and poisonings. I can think of several dozen right of the bat that are frequent violators...If the Chinese product is suspect, we can find just as many American cases for that as well.

I am not unsympathetic to job losses. My area is at 18%. My wife is a teacher with a master's degree and she was and is laid off...can't find work even at minimum wage because she is over qualified, too old, or get this: the company is worried that she will go elsewhere if she finds a better paying job. We need the income for sure. I still work for a small company...and it still has small company pay. I enjoy it, but lets face it, I'd rather be on vacation sailing around the world. The problem is that American workers are among the highest paid in the world. But anyone understanding economics knows that we also pay the highest bills because the market adjusts for income. To compete, companies have been forced elsewhere...because we have demanded too much and the market wouldn't bear the price of the product that was made. 20 years ago, we could have settled for a little less in pay, and now have a little more...but we didn't and unless we are willing to back pedal our incomes...all of us to reduce overall cost of the product, unemployment will continue to rise, and other products will be brought in from off shore. Eventually things will self regulate, but it won't happen until we back up the train and rehook the cars.


Now, let me address the billion dollar elephant standing in the room:
If someone is prejudiced against a Chinese product, for whatever reason, I have a therapeutic cure. Turn off and unplug your computer, and jump up and down on it until nothing is left, because in reality, it is a cloned, rebranded reminder of a chinese product with circuits and chips and such that are very close to a inverter welder. But isn't it ironic that usually its not the chinese made hardware that's the problem? Its the American made software?

 

[angel07]

I prefer 'everlast'.
I have personally tried it and kind of got rewarded.

 

[BlacknTan]

As for the billion dollar elephant... Here is a point where Mr. Everlast is absolutely correct!
I built my own computer with "top quality" components. A Gigabyte and MSI Motherboard have gone south, along with four (count 'em) msupposedly "high end" powerr supplies!
I finally bought an Intel board, thinking at least that it might have some QC... WRONG!!
The floppy controller does not work. An outboard Floppy drive solved the problem without pulling another motherboard.
Video card... Fan failure
Case fan failures... All of it Chinese trash!

You're right, Mr. Everlast that I'd like to jump up and down on this computer and all the other Chinese junk that comes to our shores!

What is the design life of your weld equipment? Surely there must be a design life... Is it measured in months or years?

For those considering a piece of Chinese Weld equipment, I suggest a trip to the "weld only" forums where the plethora of purveyors of these machines, all with different names, duke it out to gain customers... Each one promising a better machine that the competitor the poor soul bought and is now having trouble with... And having trouble getting his problems resolved after the sale.

There are alot of these Chinese machines... All probably coming from the same place with slightly different faceplates and paintjobs! Maybe the big names do source some parts overseas, but they've been there for customers in the past, and are right here in the USA for their customers in the future...

Theold saw applies...

Caveat Emptor.... Let the buyer beware!

My dear Mother taught me another... A fool and his money are soon parted.

Beware, there are alot of charlatans out there!

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Our units are measured in years. Our warranty is too....5 of them. And we have been around long enough now that the earliest units we sold arefalling out of warranty, yet we are still providing service...

There again, you haven't done your research. You keep making off hand statements as if you are the ultimate authority on the subject. Again, they are not all coming from the same place, though a few are..our is not...And things have changed a lot in the past couple of years in the industry. Just as your experience with a computer ended badly, others have had good experiences...Maybe it was in the assembly that caused the problem, who knows? But you bring up a good point, that conflicts with your earlier statement...You said no one gets a 1000 dollar welder for 300.00 and yet you didn't get anything out of those top end components...when a less expensive one would have served just as well.

As for some parts, there you go again, not doing your research. Whole units are being manufactured there...or other places by the majors. They will deal with the same issues we will have to deal with.

Since when did dealing with a smaller company become a bad thing? Personalized service, quick responses always seem to be a good thing. People can definitely see what is out there on other sites, but thinking people can also weigh it out...just as people come by this thread, the information you offer is basically fear mongering and you have not offered one legitimate shred of personal experience, or evidence...telling people they probably all come from the same place and all the same internally...without doing any homework on the facts. Really, come on now, who is the one here making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims? I get along with about anybody, and even people that don't agree with me. I am sure you are a decent enough fellow,from your mother teaching you so many things, but somehow it seems you are bent on destroying a thread.

 

[4shorts]

I'll tell ya. Having something made in China don't bother me. Four years ago I purchased a new tire changer that was made in China and It's been the most reliable tool in the shop. I'm changing tires from Harley's to Jags and the thing has never let me down. There's plenty of ISO certified companies there now and good quality items coming from there shores.

I'm not naive enough to think my Miller gear is 100% American. I still say I'd buy an Everlast machine due to the warranty and the pricing. No one is going to give that kind of warranty if the product isn't good. Heck it's easier to get info from Mark than it is from my Miller rep just down the road.

I think we're at the point where we need to forget where a product is made and grade it on it's performance, reliability and reputation.

I trust my Chinese tire changer. That's a $3800. rim by it in the photo :thumbsup:

 

[IXLR8]

I have yet to figure out how all this mine is better than yours pissing contest is answering WVPOLEKAT's questions. Like WVPoleKat said earlier... if you are not answering his question.... step away from the keyboard and shut up.

 

[gauthier]

Remember ixl18,its rude to tell people to shut up,and especially people you have never even met. Would you do this in person?

We got referees here,you know??