Well problem need some help

[stumpfield]

My well is 485' deep. Produce 12gpm. The pump is set at 275'. Water level is at 134'.

A few days ago, I found out my well/pump wasn't working. Just a trickle of water at times. I measured the flow and it's at about 1/2 gal per minute for a about 15 mins then goes to nothing. The water was muddy. The pump continues to run forever even with no water coming out. The pump saver circuit didn't do it's job to shutdown the pump when no water.

I called a well company to check it out. They pulled the pump and said the pump was stuck in mud/sediment. Also, there's a hole in the pipe so water was pumped up the pipe then re-circulate back down into the well through the hole in the pipe. There's plenty of water in the well. The problem is mud falling into the well and the pump may be bad.
I have the receipt from previous owner that the pump was new in 2003. However, the pump guy said it's an old pump in the early 90's and probably no good. There's no ground wire (only 3 wires for the 220v pump) The pump guy recommend to wait for the owner of the well company to come out to give me an assessment.

Two days later, the owner come out to look at the situation. He said the well is filled with mud/sediment up to 260'. I need to have the well restored to it's original depth of 485'. He recommend installing new casing ( to 485' at $10 per foot.), new pump, new pipe and new wire. The cost is around $7k. He said my well is at risk of collapse and lose the well altogether. I may need to drill a new well if I don't fix the problem.

Currently, we are not ready to put this kind of $$$ in the well. We could use water from our neighbor via a garden hose to fill the storage tank but not a long term solution. We have no experience in well water system. At this time, this is the only well company in the area. Well companies further away hesitate to come out to give me a second opinion. All they can say is probably that's what I need.

Well was drilled 18 years ago. It was working perfectly in the last 2 years since I'm there. Is there any other more cost effective solution? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[dave1949]

Ouch! No real expertise to help you. It could be the well bore was filling in below your pump for a long time and that wouldn't become apparent until it reached the pump level.

The receipt/previous owner thing is either an honest mistake or fraud.
Either way, that probably has no role to play by now.
Dave.

 

[Jimbrown]

18 years. I am betting that the casing has rusted thru in numerous places and the well has simpy filled up with mud. Either tht or the casing did not go all the way down and the well has filled because of that.

You would not have noticed the mud untill it got close to the pump and the pump started sucking it up.

I don't know what a new well would cost there but I am guess over well over $25 a foot plus the pump cost. Based on tht 7000 to recase and blow it out plus all new pump does not sound that bad.

 

[rekees4300]

For that kind of money would definitely get a 2nd opinion if possible. Would building a pond be feasible for the long term? Probably wouldn't cost much more than the well fix?

 

[stumpfield]

Just to add some info.... We are in a hard rock area. The well log filed with the county shows PVC casing to 23' deep. Well's geologic log shows:
0-23' top soil
23-120 granite
120-122 quartz
122-460 granite
460-462 quartz
462-485 granite.

The 1" steel pipes attached to the pump were rusted pretty badly.

 

[Egon]

I'm thinking the Well Company's evaluation is pretty well correct.

You could have the mud cleaned out of the well and run a new pump and discharge line.

On the other hand it sounds like the well casing has holes [corrosion] and there is no seal between the casing and exterior of the bore in some places. It could???? lead to surface water contamination. There is also a possibility the well will mud up again???

So; consider all aspects and then you'll have to make the decision.

Note:My few comments should not be construed as being proper advice.:ashamed:

 

[dave1949]

Just to add some info.... We are in a hard rock area. The well log filed with the county shows PVC casing to 23' deep. Well's geologic log shows:
0-23' top soil
23-120 granite
120-122 quartz
122-460 granite
460-462 quartz
462-485 granite.

The 1" steel pipes attached to the pump were rusted pretty badly.

So, the mud has to be coming from the first 23' it seems if the rest is really solid rock. Years ago my brother had sand showing up in his water. His well was 8-10 feet of sand, then solid limestone. The solution (provided by a well driller who was drilling my well at the time) was to remove the well cap, lay a thick board over the casing and smack it good several times with sledge. The driller said the sand was filtering around the bottom of the casing, which was probably not more than 20' deep. It worked. His casing was steel, not PVC. Based on your description and that experience, I wonder if the filling in could be stopped by replacing or re-seating the casing?

As a temp fix, could you replace the pump, pipe, wires, etc. and hang the pump at say 200'?
Dave.

 

[rekees4300]

Water is essential so those who choose to live in rural locations must either pay the price to obtain water or move. Couple years ago I had to shell out $800 for new pump in my pond's filter well and it's only 25 feet deep.

 

[Ken]

Tom using a mirror and on a brite sunny day shine a light down to the 23' level there is a good chance surface water has over the years flowed down into the well. Your note of casing only 23' this could cause a cavity large enough to fill the well.
Also any good well driller has a tool to clean out a well which they lower and a flapper on bottom fills the tool then lifted to surface to empty. then repeat until at bottom of hole.
Your casing should only be deep enough to go into the rock to a depth where the surface run off doesn't flow into well then concreted to make sure it is sealed.This is cheaper than drilling a new well.
Now should at maybe 150/ 300 feet water from secondary seam may be flowing into the well also a cavity could be being developed and the material falling into the well filling the existing well bore. if so it would need to be filled with concrete. then this redrilled to make a bore to the bottom.
Talk to another well driller get his idea. hard rock wells seldom fill with out some outside water flowing into the usable seam.
Did the leaking in the well pipe occur at pump depth or how far into the well? could be a pipe spacer is missing allowing the pump torque to rub pipe into the rock wall.
ken

 

[stumpfield]

Thanks Ken, I used a mirror to reflex sun light down and look as far as I could... about 50' or so. The PVC casing is a lot deeper than what was stated on the well log. At least 50+'. I didn't see any trace of leakage. However, I did notice the well was not straight down. It curves slightly to one side. I can barely see anything beyond the bend.

 

[CurlyDave]

I think the well company is probably right about what is needed, and if they are the only ones in the area, you are sort of stuck.

I know when my well was drilled a few years ago, the prices for casing were right in the same ballpark you are talking about, and we have at least 6 or 8 well drillers in our area.

If you get a new pump, casing and pump pipe ask them about using PVC for the riser pipe. We have either schedule 80 or 120 (I think it is 120) PVC with stainless steel couplings. This will not rust out like steel pipe.

I know $7k is a lot. Ask them about financing. Even if you decided not to fix the well and move, you would have to disclose the well issue to a buyer, and your property would be worth a lot less.

 

[zzvyb6]

Same thing happened to me. It was not a 'new' pump, but a 'different' pump that was put in by the previous owner. Perhaps one that was on the truck marked 'usable' in the absence of s 'brand new' one. I had them install a 'brand new' pump on new feed pipe and wire at a depth 20' lower than it was (150'). The muddy water was then pumped/flushed out and eventually became crystal clear. Yes there was a hole in the feed line, but the real problem was a breech in the water table caused by another well that was dug nearby. Hopefully, you can drop the new pump into the depth because its not filled will solid or gelled mud. Your driller still ought to be able to pump it out as necessary if that's the case. The cost of this is a lot less than the estimate. Install some filters inside the house where the water line comes in. Bleach the well if you are worried about surface water contamination.

 

[PILOON]

In my area the new specs for wells state that a 'bib' (think that is the term) is now part of a well system.
Essentially the well diggers pour about a yard or so of concrete around the well head to seal and prevent surface water from entering the well.
This concrete is sloped away from well in all directions.
Some soils (like sand) could allow easy seepage of surface waters.

 

[Mousefield]

The 1" steel pipes attached to the pump were rusted pretty badly

We used 1 inch black poly pipe for our submersible pump that is down 120 ft. No steel to rust out.

 

[Egon]

Hopefully, you can drop the new pump into the depth because its not filled will solid or gelled mud. Your driller still ought to be able to pump it out as necessary if that's the case

I'd hesitate on using a new pump to clean the well out. A rig can easily circulate out the well bore mud.

 

[stumpfield]

Latest update to my well problem. Still no water....

I went with the recommended solution. Clean out the well, install new casing, new pump,new pipe and new wires. The crew from the well company has been working on it for almost 2 weeks and finally quit today. They gave up and said I need a new well.

First, the driller had a tough time getting his drill rod into the well. It got stuck because the well was not straight down. It wanders left and right along the way down. Then the drilling rig broke down.
After a week of waiting for parts, he finally cleaned the well by blowing everything out but still unable to install the new casing. It got stuck at about 180'. He tried with smaller 4" casing and still unable to push the new casing down so he gave up.

He recommend just put the pump in without the casing and hope it will last a while until I got enough cash for a new well. So today, they came over to install the new pump and pipe. The plan was to set the pump at 300'. However, they ran into problem dropping the pump past 220'. It got stuck.

Since the static water level was at 135', so we thought 220' would be ok since we didn't want to try to force the pump down any further. After everything was done, still no water. They replace all the electrical components and wiring with no luck of getting any water.

They finally had to pull the pump again. Now they discovered the water level has dropped 104' to 239' instead of 135' just 2 weeks ago.

Now, I'm at a situation that the water level is at 239' but unable to drop the pump down past 220'. The only solution is to drill a new well.

Does this make any sense?

 

[Mousefield]

stumpfield, Does this make any sense?
Sounds like they ran into all the problems you just about could. Hope their bill for not getting you water is not big. Guess if they have tried (2 weeks? :confused2: )and not been successful then a new well seems like the only way to go.
Are there other well drillers in the area you can talk to?
Wish you the best, having no water is the pits.

 

[rekees4300]

They finally had to pull the pump again. Now they discovered the water level has dropped 104' to 239' instead of 135' just 2 weeks ago.

Now, I'm at a situation that the water level is at 239' but unable to drop the pump down past 220'. The only solution is to drill a new well.

Does this make any sense?

It doesn't make any sense that the water level dropped 104' in two weeks. I dunno much about deep well pumps but as a temporary measure would it be possible to suck the water up rather than pushing it up? Put a pump above the well (or part way down) then attach a plastic pipe from the pump down to the water. The pipe would need to be large enough for your water needs, strong enough so it wouldn't collapse, and flexible enough to negotiate the bent casing. I dunno if there is a pump capable of sucking that far.

 

[captaincrab55]

It doesn't make any sense that the water level dropped 104' in two weeks. I dunno much about deep well pumps but as a temporary measure would it be possible to suck the water up rather than pushing it up? Put a pump above the well (or part way down) then attach a plastic pipe from the pump down to the water. The pipe would need to be large enough for your water needs, strong enough so it wouldn't collapse, and flexible enough to negotiate the bent casing. I dunno if there is a pump capable of sucking that far.

Pumps don't like to suck much over 25'...

 

[rekees4300]

Pumps don't like to suck much over 25'...

Oh okay .... my idea sucked :ashamed: