Eagleview
Veteran Member
Your going to run out of ink one day . 
Caroni Flail Belt Failure
- Thread starter sunspot
- Start date
- Views: 87642
Bill the Elder
Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2008
- Messages
- 39
- Tractor
- JD2150 and JD2305
The never ending story: A mechanically inept man and his flail. The epic continues:
Went down this morning flashlight in hand expecting to be able to look under the mower and determine if I had done what we fear I had done. Suprise, suprise, suprise: you can't look at anything because the rotor is totally sealed. Took off the belt cover, no indication of any leakage of grease anywhere but that may mean nothing.
Sooooooo what do you mechanically inclined gentlepeople do when confronted with this situation. Does one just rip in and pull things apart enough to visual the seals? Are there any indicators from using the mower that will tip me off to a blown seal before additional damage is done?
Given that Caroni provides somebody like me just about no help whatsoever with their "documentation" would it be possible to put together a "Help and Hints in dealing successfully with your Caroni Flail Mower" document from all the information that has been posted on the threads here at Tractor By Net?
Like I said I sure don't mind working hard, but I don't have time to work dumb or reinvent any wheels if I can help it.
Thanks guys, I'm going to go mow an hour and see how things go.
Went down this morning flashlight in hand expecting to be able to look under the mower and determine if I had done what we fear I had done. Suprise, suprise, suprise: you can't look at anything because the rotor is totally sealed. Took off the belt cover, no indication of any leakage of grease anywhere but that may mean nothing.
Sooooooo what do you mechanically inclined gentlepeople do when confronted with this situation. Does one just rip in and pull things apart enough to visual the seals? Are there any indicators from using the mower that will tip me off to a blown seal before additional damage is done?
Given that Caroni provides somebody like me just about no help whatsoever with their "documentation" would it be possible to put together a "Help and Hints in dealing successfully with your Caroni Flail Mower" document from all the information that has been posted on the threads here at Tractor By Net?
Like I said I sure don't mind working hard, but I don't have time to work dumb or reinvent any wheels if I can help it.
Thanks guys, I'm going to go mow an hour and see how things go.
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 15,802
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
There is only one person on TBN that I am pretty sure has seen the guts of the Caroni drive system and bearings directly. DavesTractors on the Mahindra forum is a dealer who used to carry the Caroni flail line and has replaced bearings. You might want to send him a PM as he probably doesn't read these threads.
Let us know what words of wisdom he has.
Otherwise the only thing I could imagine doing to confirm that the seal is popped would be to gently add more grease and see if you feel any resistance. I would imagine that if the seal is gone it would be easy to add lots more grease without resistance. If you feel resistance though you should stop. However, I'd talk to a more experienced mechanic before attempting something like that. I hope DavesTractors can help.
Let us know what words of wisdom he has.
Otherwise the only thing I could imagine doing to confirm that the seal is popped would be to gently add more grease and see if you feel any resistance. I would imagine that if the seal is gone it would be easy to add lots more grease without resistance. If you feel resistance though you should stop. However, I'd talk to a more experienced mechanic before attempting something like that. I hope DavesTractors can help.
leonz
Super Member
about your mower;
Edit: the quick and the dead fix or check would be an infra red non contact thermometer
and with it you will knw for sure and the smallest ones are under $75 USD from what I remember,
your local NAPA or autozone might have them in stock or obtain them in a day or so.
Edit: this may be overkill but you can buy temperature sensitive crayons that melt etc. I think they are still available.
lets hope it was just a burp.
1. you will need to follow the bearing housing(s)
temperature now to be better informed of the bearing(s)
overall condition.
a. the burned odor of grease is one sure indication while mowing or finding
the grease heated to the point where it is dripping out of the seals on
either side.
b. housing temperature will be the quickest inidcator as it will be radiating
heat until it seizes the rotor completely
2. I would do several things right off the bat if youu have no evidence of
seal failure (insert seal joke here) and they are not barking from under
the mower hood or sunning on the porch. end seal joke
a. visit the mcmaster carr home page
b. type in grease cups
b1. call the sales desk for mcmaster carr
c. order 2 of the spring pressurised grease cups for metered delivery of grease for the rotor bearings on you flail mower.
c1. ask for 2 ninety degree fittings female/female NOT PIPE ELBOWS-steel hydraulic fittings which are a 2-2 female female ninety degree fitting for each rotor bearing- (they would also have metric fittings for the zerks and I am unsure if they use a standard SAE fitting but one trip to the auto parts store will tell you that)
which are used to install in place of the zerk fittings on the mower with 2 male to male straight fittings one of which will be installed in the zerk threads with an open end wrench using one drop of blue loctite only.
c1a. order 2 long grease hoses for the elbows and two 2-2 female straight pipe adapters which will be tightened on the end of each grease hose.
c1b. order 6 loom clamps sized for the 2 grease hoses to anchor the grease hoses to the mower frame above the bearings or near the gearbox to aid in protecting them.
c1c. buy some bolts and flat washers and for the mounting hole diameter-fine thread and purchase nylock nuts.
Drill three holes in the mower hood for the loom clamp bolts to secure them to the mower for each hose.
Iin order to properly manage the grease for the pressurised cup and grease hoses you must fill the hose first with grease then pump some grease into the cup and fill it-but not over fill it!!!! it will break/rupture with the spring pressure used to push the grease through the metering hole.
The grease cups will only deliver grease when the bearing is moving while mowing and the clear polycarbonate housing allows easy management of the grease supply(no it will not blow the seal if it is intact.
You might spend 80ish with shipping but it will be some thing that you will be able to see every day when mowing- FYI put a heavy plastic bag over the grease cup and secure it with a rubber band to keep out the dust and dirt as the housing is vented above the grease piston to allow it to move.
But checking the bearing housings temperature while mowing will work as well etc.
The nice thing about the grease cups is you know how much grease you are using and you cannot over grease a bearing with good seals as the bearing with bad seals will allow all the grease to quickly exit the the cup and empties it and the cup assembly must be remove to fill it again.
If we are lucky it may have just burped on you and saved you a lot of work- I hope anyway.
Edit: the quick and the dead fix or check would be an infra red non contact thermometer
and with it you will knw for sure and the smallest ones are under $75 USD from what I remember,
your local NAPA or autozone might have them in stock or obtain them in a day or so.
Edit: this may be overkill but you can buy temperature sensitive crayons that melt etc. I think they are still available.
lets hope it was just a burp.
1. you will need to follow the bearing housing(s)
temperature now to be better informed of the bearing(s)
overall condition.
a. the burned odor of grease is one sure indication while mowing or finding
the grease heated to the point where it is dripping out of the seals on
either side.
b. housing temperature will be the quickest inidcator as it will be radiating
heat until it seizes the rotor completely
2. I would do several things right off the bat if youu have no evidence of
seal failure (insert seal joke here) and they are not barking from under
the mower hood or sunning on the porch. end seal joke
a. visit the mcmaster carr home page
b. type in grease cups
b1. call the sales desk for mcmaster carr
c. order 2 of the spring pressurised grease cups for metered delivery of grease for the rotor bearings on you flail mower.
c1. ask for 2 ninety degree fittings female/female NOT PIPE ELBOWS-steel hydraulic fittings which are a 2-2 female female ninety degree fitting for each rotor bearing- (they would also have metric fittings for the zerks and I am unsure if they use a standard SAE fitting but one trip to the auto parts store will tell you that)
which are used to install in place of the zerk fittings on the mower with 2 male to male straight fittings one of which will be installed in the zerk threads with an open end wrench using one drop of blue loctite only.
c1a. order 2 long grease hoses for the elbows and two 2-2 female straight pipe adapters which will be tightened on the end of each grease hose.
c1b. order 6 loom clamps sized for the 2 grease hoses to anchor the grease hoses to the mower frame above the bearings or near the gearbox to aid in protecting them.
c1c. buy some bolts and flat washers and for the mounting hole diameter-fine thread and purchase nylock nuts.
Drill three holes in the mower hood for the loom clamp bolts to secure them to the mower for each hose.
Iin order to properly manage the grease for the pressurised cup and grease hoses you must fill the hose first with grease then pump some grease into the cup and fill it-but not over fill it!!!! it will break/rupture with the spring pressure used to push the grease through the metering hole.
The grease cups will only deliver grease when the bearing is moving while mowing and the clear polycarbonate housing allows easy management of the grease supply(no it will not blow the seal if it is intact.
You might spend 80ish with shipping but it will be some thing that you will be able to see every day when mowing- FYI put a heavy plastic bag over the grease cup and secure it with a rubber band to keep out the dust and dirt as the housing is vented above the grease piston to allow it to move.
But checking the bearing housings temperature while mowing will work as well etc.
The nice thing about the grease cups is you know how much grease you are using and you cannot over grease a bearing with good seals as the bearing with bad seals will allow all the grease to quickly exit the the cup and empties it and the cup assembly must be remove to fill it again.
If we are lucky it may have just burped on you and saved you a lot of work- I hope anyway.
Last edited:
SPYDERLK
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2006
- Messages
- 10,333
- Location
- VA
- Tractor
- JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500
Dont worry about it. Just be sure to grease regularly on that fitting [after every use]. Even if the seal is blown that bearing will last a long time with regular greasing flushing the contaminants out
larry
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 15,802
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
Interesting perspective. For someone who does not mow 8 hours a day and can stop every hour or so to squirt some more grease into the bearings I'd guess you are right on. Even if you burn up the bearings, the amount of labor involved is very close to what would be needed to fix the seal anyway. I don't believe the bearings are that expensive either so it is not like you are risking the rotor shaft ($$$$) or another expensive part.
Eagleview
Veteran Member
Unfortunately , the first thing that happens when a rotor bearing fails is that the bearing seizes and spins on the shaft and either welds itself to the shaft or machines the shaft undersize so a new bearing will not be a tight fit .
It's two hours work to pull the rotor out and replace the seals .
Bill the Elder
Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2008
- Messages
- 39
- Tractor
- JD2150 and JD2305
Lots to think about from a variety of perspectives on how to deal with this issue.
I get the feeling that Iron Horse has the experience, tools, and temperament to deal with just about any problem that comes up with his equipment. I don't have any of those things. Maybe with the tools, a good place to work and an actual service manual I could (with some help) take that rotor out, replace the seals and put it back together again: Maybe. All I've got are pretty common hand tools, the ground and a exploded diagram of the assembly. 2 hours my Australian friend? More like a whole weekend if nothing went wrong, I didn't break anything more and I had the parts on hand. Can't afford the time for that during harvest and getting ready for winter.
Leon, wow have you got ideas. They look eminently practical and of great value but once again well over my skill, experience and tool level.
So for better or worse here's what I'm going to try. I've got between 3 and 4 more acres to mow before winter. I've wanted to buy one of those IR remote thermometers for some time now. Good reason to buy one. Any suggestions as to a good but not extravagant model for the small farm tool box. I'm going to put a few squirts of grease into that zerk then I'm going to monitor rotor temperatures every 2000' ( or a little over 600 meters for those of you who don't use archaic measuring units). If I start noting a temperature differential indicative of a bearing set beginning to overheat I will load the mower up and take it to my buddy's machine shop and we'll tear into it.
No evidence of overheating, well then maybe I got a break and something just burped and the seal is fine.
Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to help me out here. If any of you were closer I would make presents of good potatoes, garlic, onions, shallots and the like. We grow great food on this farm. Keeping the machinery that assists us in that work in the best shape is an ongoing challenge for me. Thanks again for your help.
PS Just did a little checking and the Kintrex IRT0421 for a little under $50 including shipping looks like it is a solid value for the money. I'm just going to order it up and get things moving. Nice to be able to check trailer wheel bearings, axle temps and other areas of equipment that might be prone to damage from overheating.
I get the feeling that Iron Horse has the experience, tools, and temperament to deal with just about any problem that comes up with his equipment. I don't have any of those things. Maybe with the tools, a good place to work and an actual service manual I could (with some help) take that rotor out, replace the seals and put it back together again: Maybe. All I've got are pretty common hand tools, the ground and a exploded diagram of the assembly. 2 hours my Australian friend? More like a whole weekend if nothing went wrong, I didn't break anything more and I had the parts on hand. Can't afford the time for that during harvest and getting ready for winter.
Leon, wow have you got ideas. They look eminently practical and of great value but once again well over my skill, experience and tool level.
So for better or worse here's what I'm going to try. I've got between 3 and 4 more acres to mow before winter. I've wanted to buy one of those IR remote thermometers for some time now. Good reason to buy one. Any suggestions as to a good but not extravagant model for the small farm tool box. I'm going to put a few squirts of grease into that zerk then I'm going to monitor rotor temperatures every 2000' ( or a little over 600 meters for those of you who don't use archaic measuring units). If I start noting a temperature differential indicative of a bearing set beginning to overheat I will load the mower up and take it to my buddy's machine shop and we'll tear into it.
No evidence of overheating, well then maybe I got a break and something just burped and the seal is fine.
Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time to help me out here. If any of you were closer I would make presents of good potatoes, garlic, onions, shallots and the like. We grow great food on this farm. Keeping the machinery that assists us in that work in the best shape is an ongoing challenge for me. Thanks again for your help.
PS Just did a little checking and the Kintrex IRT0421 for a little under $50 including shipping looks like it is a solid value for the money. I'm just going to order it up and get things moving. Nice to be able to check trailer wheel bearings, axle temps and other areas of equipment that might be prone to damage from overheating.
Last edited:
Eagleview
Veteran Member
According to this exploded diagram , you don't even have to remove the rotor . It looks like there are bearing caps that are simply withdrawn from the outside to service the bearings and seals .
By the way , if it was air trapped in a grease gun , it would not have made a noise . The gun would simply not work because of the air , so could not pump air to make a noise .
By the way , if it was air trapped in a grease gun , it would not have made a noise . The gun would simply not work because of the air , so could not pump air to make a noise .
