Deere Rear Hydraulic Options

[foggy1111]

Ya know....I also wrote allot of technical papers and product brochures and such in another life. From that experience....I began using the three (and sometimes more) "periods" instead of comma's when I write stuff. It was such a great way to write product brochures....without re-stating all kinds of stuff. It was meant as a pause....before finishing what your trying to say.

I fear it gets me in trouble some times?....or maybe not? (grin)

 

[Rob-D]

Ya know....I also wrote allot of technical papers and product brochures and such in another life. From that experience....I began using the three (and sometimes more) "periods" instead of comma's when I write stuff. It was such a great way to write product brochures....without re-stating all kinds of stuff. It was meant as a pause....before finishing what your trying to say.

I fear it gets me in trouble some times?....or maybe not? (grin)

Multiple periods after a sentence indicate afterthoughts. Will I go dancing tonight?....or will I go to the movies? Will the 3PH work with the PB? .... or will it work with a spool valve?


But let's just chalk it up to misunderstanding and hopefully you have your answer somewhere in the responses provided.

best,
Rob

 

[jd670]

I've been following this post and started wondering why JD has never offered a better solution to this problem in the past. I don't know why they couldn't put a set of 2 or 3 remotes on the back without having a diverter valve to flip from front to back. Reminds me of the mid pto setup on the 4000ten series tractors. You had to turn the rear pto on to get the mid pto to work. Makes me wonder who is designing the tractors..bean counters or engineers. Just my 2 cents.

 

[foggy1111]

Multiple periods after a sentence indicate afterthoughts. Will I go dancing tonight?....or will I go to the movies? Will the 3PH work with the PB? .... or will it work with a spool valve?


But let's just chalk it up to misunderstanding and hopefully you have your answer somewhere in the responses provided.

best,
Rob

Amen Rob. Good discussion at any rate! One thing about this techy world we live in....It's hard to say anything absolute....without an afterthought. :laughing:

 

[Angelus]

Sorry to ask what is probably stupid set of questions, but I was reading this post trying to understand what I can and cannot do with the hydraulics on my JD 3038e. I'm very confused.

When I purchased the tractor, I had the dealer install the two-spool rear selective control valve option that I link to below:
Optional two-spool rear selective control valve for superior implement performance

The reason I had the rear SCV installed was because I thought it would help me with a grapple setup as well as 3pt implements like a stump grinder or Top and Tilt. Subsequently, I have read posts that show people using front-mounted valves for their grapples. So here are my questions:

1. If I want a grapple and a true 3rd function hydraulic kit for my loader, is the rear SCV really the best way to do that since I guess I would need to run some hydraulic lines from the back of the tractor to the front? Or is it better to have the grapple operated off of lines originating in the front of the tractor where the loader lines originate?

2. If it would be better to have the grapple operated off of lines originating in the front, can I also tap into something on the front side for the grapple even though I already have the rear SCV? Or does having the rear SCV use up all the available valves?

3. Would a true 3rd function kit even work with a grapple plugged into the rear SCV? Seems like it would not to me. I'm looking at something like this:
3rd function auxilliary hydraulic kits for all brands of tractors and loaders! purchase online, free shipping within 1,000 miles!!

Again, I apologize in advance if my questions are unclear. The language of hydraulics is new to me. But I hope you can understand enough of what I'm trying to say to help me. Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

Sorry to ask what is probably stupid set of questions, but I was reading this post trying to understand what I can and cannot do with the hydraulics on my JD 3038e. I'm very confused.

When I purchased the tractor, I had the dealer install the two-spool rear selective control valve option that I link to below:
Optional two-spool rear selective control valve for superior implement performance

The reason I had the rear SCV installed was because I thought it would help me with a grapple setup as well as 3pt implements like a stump grinder or Top and Tilt. Subsequently, I have read posts that show people using front-mounted valves for their grapples. So here are my questions:

Not stupid questions at all.

There are many people using a rear remote to operate a grapple. Probably more than those with dedicated front setups like the true 3rd function or diverter valves. Rear remotes are more versatile and can be used for lots of things whereas front remote are not.

1. If I want a grapple and a true 3rd function hydraulic kit for my loader, is the rear SCV really the best way to do that since I guess I would need to run some hydraulic lines from the back of the tractor to the front? Or is it better to have the grapple operated off of lines originating in the front of the tractor where the loader lines originate?

Well, two long 1/4" hoses are far cheaper than a dedicated front remote, that's the main reason people choose it. What's "better" is like asking the Ford/Chevy or Gear/HST question. There are strong opinions on both sides of the isle.

2. If it would be better to have the grapple operated off of lines originating in the front, can I also tap into something on the front side for the grapple even though I already have the rear SCV? Or does having the rear SCV use up all the available valves?

Any valve dedicated to the front will be a custom setup-JD does not offer anything to do it. WR Long or EA may have a "kit", but they are $700, and doing it your self will be at least $500. Again, the "what's better" choice is up to you, and very subjective.

3. Would a true 3rd function kit even work with a grapple plugged into the rear SCV? Seems like it would not to me. I'm looking at something like this:
3rd function auxilliary hydraulic kits for all brands of tractors and loaders! purchase online, free shipping within 1,000 miles!!

No. The new valve would be plumbed into the Power Beyond loop, then the grapple plugs into it. The valve is electrically operated.

 

[foggy1111]

I ended up using the tractor's SCV and rear remotes to operate my grapple. I do have the JD hard lines installed on my 3320 (not sure you can get these for your tractor/loader) so it was pretty much "plug and play" for my grapple.

I think you could be quite satisfied with the operation via the SCV and using your existing hydraulic remotes. As Kenny points out above.....it's mostly a matter of getting hoses to the front of your tractor. You still maintain rear remotes for other needs by just "unpluging" the quick couplers.

Also, most Deere Dealers have a "Fasse valve kit" which allows an electric diverter to plug into a set of rear remote couplers....thus giving two pairs of remotes and an electric switch to control which pair of remotes you want to use (via the SCV on the tractor). This is a fairly easy and affordable alternative IF you want to keep a set of connections available for use at the back of the tractor AND use your grapple at the same time.

(I considered more hydraulic remotes as I wanted to also control a hydraulic top link and have a need to operate two cylinders on my stump grinder.....therefore considered an electric / hydraulic diverter valve or a power beyond and another valve. So far, I figured out how to get along without adding extra remotes. )

Hope I didn't serve to confuse.

Addendum: See my post on Woods stump grinder to see how I plumbed my grinder without adding more hydraulics. I think it works well....and I didn't spend any money to get two extra cylinders to operate when using the grinder.

 

[jenkinsph]

Deeres' hydraulic options are too limited IMO, the only small tractor with a good option offered is the 110tlb with a three spool diverter. This allows for three functions front and three rear all on the joystick. In the case of the 110 when you opt for the diverter it really helps and is an improvement. Since this has been an offering on the 110 for several years I don't see why it isn't available for the other tractors, I would have bought it for my 4520 if it were available.

 

[Angelus]

Kenny and Foggy, thanks for the replies. I think I understand a little better. I will try to restate the options in my own words. Please tell me if I got something wrong.

1. I can use the rear remotes that I already have on the tractor to run the grapple. To do this I will need to run two hoses from the rear up to where the grapple connects to the loader. My normal loader control joystick would not change. So in order to clamp down or release with the grapple, I would reach back and use one of the little levers on the rear SCV. Is this correct?

If I'm correct, the downsides I see would be a) the need to reach back to clamp or release the grapple and b) the inconvenience of having to plug/unplug and store the hydraulic hoses if I want to use the rear remotes for other things. The benefit, of course, would be that this option is nearly free (except for the hoses) because I already have the rear remotes.

2. I can use a 3rd function kit to plug into the PowerBeyond loop where the other loader hoses come out. The third function would change my current joystick setup to allow me to clamp and release with my thumb (or something like that).

Benefits under this scenario, a) I could use the loader with grapple and both rear remotes without any modification (meaning no unplugging of hoses) and b) I would also have the 3rd function button right there on my joystick. Downside would be cost for the kit and installation.

3. I can use a "diverter kit" to electronically divert power from one place to another. I don't really understand this except that when you divert you lose the option to use any valve that you are diverting from. So I would be potentially losing functionality somewhere, at least temporarily. Maybe this doesn't matter. As I said, I don't think I understand this option well. Could someone help me understand this better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are a great resource.

 

[foggy1111]

Deeres' hydraulic options are too limited IMO, the only small tractor with a good option offered is the 110tlb with a three spool diverter. This allows for three functions front and three rear all on the joystick. In the case of the 110 when you opt for the diverter it really helps and is an improvement. Since this has been an offering on the 110 for several years I don't see why it isn't available for the other tractors, I would have bought it for my 4520 if it were available.

Yep!! You gotta wonder what Deere is thinking about when they make it so difficult to add more remotes economically. Yes, they can get some 'mo money from some of us for the optional hydraulics.....but for many others it serves to limit the implement choices (and sales) later. Especially big-ticket items.

 

[kennyd]

Kenny and Foggy, thanks for the replies. I think I understand a little better. I will try to restate the options in my own words. Please tell me if I got something wrong.

1. I can use the rear remotes that I already have on the tractor to run the grapple. To do this I will need to run two hoses from the rear up to where the grapple connects to the loader. My normal loader control joystick would not change. So in order to clamp down or release with the grapple, I would reach back and use one of the little levers on the rear SCV. Is this correct?

If I'm correct, the downsides I see would be a) the need to reach back to clamp or release the grapple and b) the inconvenience of having to plug/unplug and store the hydraulic hoses if I want to use the rear remotes for other things. The benefit, of course, would be that this option is nearly free (except for the hoses) because I already have the rear remotes.

2. I can use a 3rd function kit to plug into the PowerBeyond loop where the other loader hoses come out. The third function would change my current joystick setup to allow me to clamp and release with my thumb (or something like that).

Benefits under this scenario, a) I could use the loader with grapple and both rear remotes without any modification (meaning no unplugging of hoses) and b) I would also have the 3rd function button right there on my joystick. Downside would be cost for the kit and installation.

3. I can use a "diverter kit" to electronically divert power from one place to another. I don't really understand this except that when you divert you lose the option to use any valve that you are diverting from. So I would be potentially losing functionality somewhere, at least temporarily. Maybe this doesn't matter. As I said, I don't think I understand this option well. Could someone help me understand this better?

Thanks in advance. You guys are a great resource.

You are correct on all points. I use a diverter now and while it does take a little getting used to-it works perfectly. Mine (and most others) divert the dump/curl circuit.

 

[jgrreed]

Kenny and Foggy, thanks for the replies. I think I understand a little better. I will try to restate the options in my own words. Please tell me if I got something wrong.

1. I can use the rear remotes that I already have on the tractor to run the grapple. To do this I will need to run two hoses from the rear up to where the grapple connects to the loader. My normal loader control joystick would not change. So in order to clamp down or release with the grapple, I would reach back and use one of the little levers on the rear SCV. Is this correct?

Very true. The hoses are a bit 'messy', but Kenny's right about the costs.

If I'm correct, the downsides I see would be a) the need to reach back to clamp or release the grapple and b) the inconvenience of having to plug/unplug and store the hydraulic hoses if I want to use the rear remotes for other things. The benefit, of course, would be that this option is nearly free (except for the hoses) because I already have the rear remotes.

Yep, exactly.

2. I can use a 3rd function kit to plug into the PowerBeyond loop where the other loader hoses come out. The third function would change my current joystick setup to allow me to clamp and release with my thumb (or something like that).

Yes, you can. I'm not a fan of the diverter setups like WR Long's, but I think they do offer a non-diverter style as well. I prefer to build my own kit, but it's each to their own. I'll be posting how I built my kit on here as soon as my machine gets home, which I hope is soon, because I'm told there are 4' drfits in the yard!!!

Benefits under this scenario, a) I could use the loader with grapple and both rear remotes without any modification (meaning no unplugging of hoses) and b) I would also have the 3rd function button right there on my joystick. Downside would be cost for the kit and installation.

Yep. Will likely be a couple thousand, depending on what you go with. It's a situation where adding one circuit will cost you X, but 3 won't cost 3X, it'll likely be 2X. Kinda like buying donuts - one is $1.00, 3 are $2.00, and 12 are $5.00. I added 5.

3. I can use a "diverter kit" to electronically divert power from one place to another. I don't really understand this except that when you divert you lose the option to use any valve that you are diverting from. So I would be potentially losing functionality somewhere, at least temporarily. Maybe this doesn't matter. As I said, I don't think I understand this option well. Could someone help me understand this better?

You're correct in how you're thinking about it. That's why I don't like them. It just makes for mental gymnastics.....

This is how I imagine me running a diverter "does the button+leftstick make the grapple open, or does it curl the bucket, or does it angle the blade, oh my god.....where did that log splitter come from.......aaahhh!!!"

If you're running a backhoe I think a diverter would actually make your head explode....

Read through this:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/187546-how-i-think-through-add.html

It's not complete yet, but I think it'll guide you a bit. If it doesn't, let me know and I'll have to re-write it. I wrote it just for people in your situation.

-Jer.

Thanks in advance.

You're welcome!!

 

[jgrreed]

You are correct on all points. I use a diverter now and while it does take a little getting used to-it works perfectly. Mine (and most others) divert the dump/curl circuit.

What Kenny didn't tell you is that he is actually a Jedi, so don't expect the same results!!!

 

[jgrreed]

Yep!! You gotta wonder what Deere is thinking about when they make it so difficult to add more remotes economically. Yes, they can get some 'mo money from some of us for the optional hydraulics.....but for many others it serves to limit the implement choices (and sales) later. Especially big-ticket items.

You guys are VERY right. It's irritating that we have to design our own systems when we're supposedly dealing with the 'premiere' company.

-Jer.

 

[Angelus]

I think I've got it now. Very helpful. Thanks again guys.

 

[Tractor King]

I operate a JD4400 and use Bradco Fork lift with a grapple set up I designed. I have the rear outlet kit installed and the control is a right fender design. I think they also made a dual. Anyway I just hydrualic hoze lines from the rear and on the loader to the cylinder....no problem at all.