Installed restricted orifice on my hydraulic toplink today

[rjkobbeman]

I finally got around to installing a couple of restrictive orifices on my hydraulic toplink today. MAN, what a difference that makes!

Probably only needed one, but I put one on each line.

I gave it a heavy workout today mowing a 300' ditch. Had to back into the ditch on each side. Mowed 6' at a time... up and down, up and down.

I couldn't find the orifices when I installed the HTL. Was a pain to use... really jumped down hard, even when finessing the controls. The HTL is sweet now! Got a little warm, but the workout it got today is not normal.

 

[eepete]

What did you use to restrict it? Pictures?

Pete

 

[kennyd]

I finally got around to installing a couple of restrictive orifices on my hydraulic toplink today. MAN, what a difference that makes!

Probably only needed one, but I put one on each line.

I gave it a heavy workout today mowing a 300' ditch. Had to back into the ditch on each side. Mowed 6' at a time... up and down, up and down.

I couldn't find the orifices when I installed the HTL. Was a pain to use... really jumped down hard, even when finessing the controls. The HTL is sweet now! Got a little warm, but the workout it got today is not normal.

Just to confirm your thoughts, you do in fact only need one restictor.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

would be nice to hear about your setup.....

Generally speakin, there are a few things to take into concideration when setting up a restrictor...

...do you need restriction on both extend and retract?

...if there are inertia or gravity forces involved, meter out restriction is to prefere to prevent cavitation

...controlling pump flow, be careful using meter out restriction on rod side...need pressure calculations....

 

[rjkobbeman]

What did you use to restrict it? Pictures?

Pete

I will take some pictures tonight. Didn't think about that.

Pretty much your basic setup:

CCM HTL with "double piloted check valve"
Hoses going to/from HTL and rear remote valve
Inline restrictor to restrict flow Swivel Adapter, 3/8 in. Restricted Male Pipe x 3/8 in. Female Pipe Swivel - 1818147 | Tractor Supply Company

 

[nunyabinis]

My HTL shipped from Surplus Center yesterday. I plan to put a restrictor in from the get-go.

Also, kennyd convinced me to get an iMatch and modify all my implements to fit the iMatch and be done with it. Time to dust off the MIG and Plasma Cutter.

I figure that a HTL mated to an iMatch that fits all my implements will be SWEET!!!

 

[kennyd]

My HTL shipped from Surplus Center yesterday. I plan to put a restrictor in from the get-go.

Also, kennyd convinced me to get an iMatch and modify all my implements to fit the iMatch and be done with it. Time to dust off the MIG and Plasma Cutter.

I figure that a HTL mated to an iMatch that fits all my implements will be SWEET!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[eepete]

rjkobbeman, tnx for reply. I have a CCM top link and side link. I also have an iMatch.

I too am a kennyd and jenkinsph listener and convert.

Pete

 

[MtnViewRanch]

eepete, your rig sure looks nice. :thumbsup: I have a question though, do you find that your top link is to long? In the picture it looks like you can't get much forward tilt, is that the case or not even needed in your situations? :confused3:

 

[eepete]

Picture is worth 1000 words, here's 4000 words worth of answer .

I still have the manual side link on the other side, so if I want to get out of the cab I can bias the side to side tilt a bit more.

The hoses going up for the tilt are a little odd. This winter I'll look at getting them to re-direct under the tractor and not so they are touching the rear window of the cab. jenkinsph has his set up that way, it's cleaner.

Pete

 

[picker77]

eepete, just finished installing the TNT on my little 3032E, and I have more or less the same problem with tilt (top link is ok). Tilt is a bit violent for my taste unless I'm really careful on the control. Further compounding the situation was my use of a 6" cyl for tilt instead of 4", so my tilt angle is I think a bit more than yours, too. I think I'm going to try one of the needle valves from Surplus Center that KennyD recommended.

Can't see EVER going back to the stone ages by not having TNT, though!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

eepete, just finished installing the TNT on my little 3032E, and I have more or less the same problem with tilt (top link is ok). Tilt is a bit violent for my taste unless I'm really careful on the control. Further compounding the situation was my use of a 6" cyl for tilt instead of 4", so my tilt angle is I think a bit more than yours, too. I think I'm going to try one of the needle valves from Surplus Center that KennyD recommended.

Can't see EVER going back to the stone ages by not having TNT, though![/quote]

This is one of the things that soooooooo many people just do not seem to understand. If you use any grading implement, "TnT" makes such am improvement to the capabilities of that implement. :cool2: "TnT" is one of those options-improvements to our tractors that once you have it, you would never be without it again. :thumbsup:

Oh, needle valves are the way to go IMO. Be sure when you buy them that you get the valve that flows equally in both directions. I did not pay attention the first time and bought valves that only controlled the flow in one direction and had free flow for the return. You don't want to make that mistake.

 

[jgrreed]

eepete, just finished installing the TNT on my little 3032E, and I have more or less the same problem with tilt (top link is ok). Tilt is a bit violent for my taste unless I'm really careful on the control. Further compounding the situation was my use of a 6" cyl for tilt instead of 4", so my tilt angle is I think a bit more than yours, too. I think I'm going to try one of the needle valves from Surplus Center that KennyD recommended.

Can't see EVER going back to the stone ages by not having TNT, though!

What cylinder length would you guys recommend for the side link?? That's coming up for me soon.....from CCM, unless you have a better suggestion.

-Jer.

 

[Arky217]

This thread has prompted me to ask a question about restricted orifices. When I bought a bucket grapple for my tractor, it came with two restricted orifices, but I did not install them.

Now that I have used the grapple for a while, I can see where an orifice would give it finer control, so I plan to install one in the line that closes the grapple.

Now the question; whenever I used the loader to lift something delicate (like a roof truss for example), I can't seem to get it to lift slowly no matter how gradually I pull back on the lever.
Lowering is not so much a problem.
What I was wondering is if installing a orifice in the line that lifts the loader would have any negative effect on the hydraulics.
In other words, would it put too much strain on the pump or would it heat the hydraulic fluid too much ?

Anyone tried that or have any solution to make the loader's lift not so abrupt ?

Thanks,

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Anytime that the fluid is restricted, the fluid heats up. If that restrictor is in a high use high volume hydraulic, you could very well have a problem.

 

[teg]

...Be sure when you buy them that you get the valve that flows equally in both directions...

MtnViewRanch, is this the right needle flow.... N600S 3/8 NPT PARKER NEEDLE VALVE

...and to confirm, you just need one for each spool?

 

[AKKAMAAN]

This thread has prompted me to ask a question about restricted orifices. When I bought a bucket grapple for my tractor, it came with two restricted orifices, but I did not install them.

Now that I have used the grapple for a while, I can see where an orifice would give it finer control, so I plan to install one in the line that closes the grapple.

Now the question; whenever I used the loader to lift something delicate (like a roof truss for example), I can't seem to get it to lift slowly no matter how gradually I pull back on the lever.
Lowering is not so much a problem.
What I was wondering is if installing a orifice in the line that lifts the loader would have any negative effect on the hydraulics.
In other words, would it put too much strain on the pump or would it heat the hydraulic fluid too much ?

Anyone tried that or have any solution to make the loader's lift not so abrupt ?

Thanks,

First of all, you have a fixed displacement pump, which deliver flow proportional to engine rpm's.....lowest engine rpm is about 600rpm??? and max is about 2400rpm??
At 600rpm, your pump still deliver 25% of max possible flow.
When lifting a load, you build pressure with your control valve by restricting the center. At the same time you open the work port. When pressure from pump is bigger than load pressure, the cylinder will start moving. Now if your control valve is sized for controlling the max flow, it will become way over sized at this 600rpm low flow. To build enough pressure, center will need to be almost closed, and that will make your control valve almost without proportionality, especially if load pressure is high.
Accordingly, if control valve is sized for controlling the low rpm's flow, the valve will become way under sized at the high rpm's flow, and also cause loss of proportionality, but in the beginning of the spool stroke this time.....

Try to find the optimal rpm (flow) for a specific load pressure and you will get maximum proportionality from your control valve.
If this do not help, you might look into a control valve that have mettering notches in the spool....

Edit: Or like this Prince stack valve...

 

[picker77]

Anytime that the fluid is restricted, the fluid heats up. If that restrictor is in a high use high volume hydraulic, you could very well have a problem.

So for a low use small volume cylinder like my side link, taking the cheapo route with a home made fixed orifice restrictor would probably work ok? I'm hoping to keep things simple here.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

MtnViewRanch, is this the right needle flow.... N600S 3/8 NPT PARKER NEEDLE VALVE

...and to confirm, you just need one for each spool?

Yes to both of your questions.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

So for a low use small volume cylinder like my side link, taking the cheapo route with a home made fixed orifice restrictor would probably work ok? I'm hoping to keep things simple here.

While the restrictors help a lot, it is sort of a hit and miss type of deal to get the right size orifice. You might be surprised at how small the orifice needs to be to get the speed that you want. On my 3215, the needle valves are open as little as I can set them (virtually closed) to have them at a comfortable operating speed.