Solar installation

[LD1]

LD1,
I just opened my co-op bill before I read your post. Right now I'm under 580 KWh a month but even my auto-trip outside lights are CFLs.

What I will do is start a projects thread with pictures when I do the alterntors.
I run NdFeB magnets in the armature and wind or rewind, the 3ph alternator to give me a specific power at a specific rpm. I have a collection of enameled wire so i can contour the alternator just the way i want it. If you have a lathe or access to one, you can do most of the work.

I run the output voltages higher than my batteries when the alternator is running at speed and just use diodes (schottky for a low forward voltage drop). My MPPT regulates the power for battery charging so even if the voltage varies it still goes to the batteries as a charge just as long as i keep it above the battery voltage itself.

You can PM me if you have any in depth questions.

Rob

I'll have to wait and catch one of your threads whenever you build your next one.

As to the CFL's, which brand/type exacally are you using??

All the ones that I have tried in the outdoor motion detector lights dont last more than a month. I finally gave up and bought regular onl incadescent bulbs again. Whatever money I was trying to save was wasted by spending $1-$2 per bulb when the incadescents are ~33 cents each.

I have read that the CFL's arent supposed to be used with motion detectors because of the constant switching on ang off, not to mention really cold winters. But I you have found some that will last at least a year or two, I may give them a try.

 

[Rob-D]

I'll have to wait and catch one of your threads whenever you build your next one.

As to the CFL's, which brand/type exacally are you using??

All the ones that I have tried in the outdoor motion detector lights dont last more than a month. I finally gave up and bought regular onl incadescent bulbs again. Whatever money I was trying to save was wasted by spending $1-$2 per bulb when the incadescents are ~33 cents each.

I have read that the CFL's arent supposed to be used with motion detectors because of the constant switching on ang off, not to mention really cold winters. But I you have found some that will last at least a year or two, I may give them a try.

The ones I have last (been in a couple of years now) but the down side is they take a minute to come up to full brightness which you may not like. I think I got them at Home Depot so they're nothing special. LEDs should be out soon enough and should last. In your case you might want to wait for the prices to come down.
I get all the trade magazines and two things are going to explode in the next couple of years: LED lighting and electric cars, that's why Nissan is trying to get the Leaf out first. The big change is battery technology. The nano-phosphate Lithium-ion batteries are going to increase the distance cars can go by a lot. Trouble is we have to go to Brazil for lithium!

Also solar panel prices are dropping and I could get comparable panels to mine for less than 600 bucks in bulk the last time I checked. There will be a point when solar will appeal to a larger percentage of the population especially as oil prices keep rising and COPs drop.
Rob

 

[eepete]

North Carolina used to be the biggest lithium producer in the US. Brazil can extract it at a lower cost, so the mines here shut down. Similar story to many of the rare earth minerals that now come from China (like the ones in Rob-D's magnets). Lithium can't be too scarce or too expensive if you can buy throw away AA lithium batteries, but the world has done some spectacular squandering of resources in the past.

I wish I knew just how bad the CFLs would be in ceiling can lights when we built in '06. I would have put in a lot more sconces than I did. The entire light fixture industry has completely ignored CFLs and what could be done to make them work better. I'm disappointed the free market isn't adapting faster than it is.

I use CFL outdoor floodlights, they all come on when I drive in the driveway or open an outside door. They are turned on by a relay. Been fine for 3 years, no failures.
I had two 13W CFLs on a Leviton two-way motion control, they fried in a year. They were turned on by a triac instead of a relay. You could hear them being unhappy when they were on. I suspect this subtlety of lighting systems might be behind the "they work / they don't work" anecdotal information.

Raw LED prices are going down, I paid $10 each for 1W leds back in 2005 when I made my own LED light low voltage fixtures. There are cheaper and better LEDs available now. There are much better drivers chips now, I had to adapt a switching supply chip to run mine. The part that is killing everyone is thermal management. This is for both the LED and the driver electronics, especially (once again) in ceiling can lights.

Oh well, life on the bleeding edge of technology .

Pete

 

[Rob-D]

North Carolina used to be the biggest lithium producer in the US. Brazil can extract it at a lower cost, so the mines here shut down. Similar story to many of the rare earth minerals that now come from China (like the ones in Rob-D's magnets). Lithium can't be too scarce or too expensive if you can buy throw away AA lithium batteries, but the world has done some spectacular squandering of resources in the past.

I wish I knew just how bad the CFLs would be in ceiling can lights when we built in '06. I would have put in a lot more sconces than I did. The entire light fixture industry has completely ignored CFLs and what could be done to make them work better. I'm disappointed the free market isn't adapting faster than it is.

I use CFL outdoor floodlights, they all come on when I drive in the driveway or open an outside door. They are turned on by a relay. Been fine for 3 years, no failures.
I had two 13W CFLs on a Leviton two-way motion control, they fried in a year. They were turned on by a triac instead of a relay. You could hear them being unhappy when they were on. I suspect this subtlety of lighting systems might be behind the "they work / they don't work" anecdotal information.

Raw LED prices are going down, I paid $10 each for 1W leds back in 2005 when I made my own LED light low voltage fixtures. There are cheaper and better LEDs available now. There are much better drivers chips now, I had to adapt a switching supply chip to run mine. The part that is killing everyone is thermal management. This is for both the LED and the driver electronics, especially (once again) in ceiling can lights.

Oh well, life on the bleeding edge of technology .

Pete

I see a lot of big companies like International Rectifier and National Semiconductor coming out with dedicated drive chips to run LEDs and with traffic lights going LED things can only get better. I'm also seeing a lot of new motor drive chips coming out.
Europe is so far ahead of us, they are already running their major appliances on brushless DC motors.
I have the same problems with my kitchen flood lights. The trouble is they are up 14 feet so I'm planning on installing drop fixtures with standard CFLs that have the bugs out.
I never thought about the fact that these auto on outside lights use Triacs and SCRs. I'll bet what happens is they don't get full voltage initially and that beats up the drive circuits.
I didn't know about NC and lithium but if we get the major manufacturers all coming out with electric cars we'll see a lot of batteries.
Rob

 

[Rod in Forfar]

We're trying to decide whether or not to install a 70 acre solar array on the farm. It would use up just about all of the land which is not woodlot, and involve plowing under about 9000 young trees.

The money's really good, though, and the developer will let us have continued access to the property and one field and the woodlot, as well as my play areas around the houses.

As decisions go, this is a biggie. Solar farms in Ontario are the current gold rush among the big energy people.

 

[eepete]

Rod, I remember reading on the net what the subsidies were in Canada in some areas for PV arrays that track (vs. stationary). The arrays were about 43% more efficient than stationary. The increased subsidies for PV systems that used tracking arrays paid for the higher cost of the mounts and still made more money for the electricity. Good luck with your decision.

Rob, the triac switching is also a problem because some of the CFLs have "poor mans power factor correction" by using an inductor to spread the current out from the peak of the cycle. Combining a big series inductive load with a triac is not what either circuit expects.

In all this talk about payback of systems, I had a thought a few weeks ago. My architect lied to me and said that I could not get triple pane windows in North Carolina. He gave me a sample price of what they sell for "up north". At the time, I remember figuring out that at the delta cost it would be cheaper to put in solar panels than triple pane glass, so I let it go.

That got me thinking about how I spent more money for the good foam insulation and the better windows which gave me both a immediate payback on the power bill and a long term because they increased the value of the house. In all the discussions about payback periods on PV panels, I've been treating them like they go away after 20 or 30 years. But they are much like a heat pump as part of a HVAC system. There are parts of the system that wear out, but there are also parts that are built in just like ducts, wiring, and registers.

There is the area where the panels are located, the wiring to it, the grounding, and the small shed I did to hold the inverter. As parts of the system wear out, you maintain them. Then when you sell the house you get some money back for the system, just like you would any part of a house (HVAC, plumbing, wiring, insulation, good windows) that was better than the low end stuff in a spec starter home.

While a greater percentage of the cost of the PV system wears out than with a HVAC system, these pieces are things that are probably going down in cost as the years go on (unlike heat pump units or windows). It's also different because you can replace a window or two if they leak or get damaged, but it's hard to replace one solar panel or part of an inverter.

At any rate, part of the value of a solar system is that it's part of the house infrastructure and just like any system it adds value to the house. The scary part is that right now numbers for payback and long term maintenance are much more of a guess in PV panels than with insulation, HVAC systems, or windows.

BTW, the latest number on the system here are that since early August the system has averaged making 56% of the power we use. The shorter days and more cloudy days of winter hurt a bit. Our net power bill will be cut by about 80%.

Pete

 

[Rob-D]

Pete,
I don't know about payback, I lose power here about 3 or 4 times a years (usually just when you need it the most!) So the solar is a big help. I'm starting to set up LEDs for lighting, not that I don't like the CFL's, they certainly have a place. I just like the LEDs, they are easier to work with and now there are some high efficiency drive chips coming out so I don't have to dig up magnetics to make buck/boost converters anymore.

Well after a month or so with the system set up it looks like I'll be able to run completely off the grid once my hydro and windmills are in. Now all I have to do is build the alternators. Trouble is like most of you I'm juggling 20 different tasks. I have several magazine articles to get out and I still haven't finished the sun room.
Sometimes I think winter is a blessing, I get to work on all my indoor projects!
Rob

 

[dmccarty]

Figured I would bring this thread back to life.....



Progress Energy announced a new rebate for Solar power production, $1,000 per KW for systems installed that are 2KW to 10KW. The home owner also wold get a credit each month of $4.50 per KW.

This was just announced on 1/5/2011. http://www.progress-energy.com/abou...-energy.com/aboutus/news/article.asp?id=25382

They also have a solar water heater pilot rebate program that has been running for a while. It is/was limited to a small number of house holds but it might still be accepting people.

The solar PV rebate is very interesting.

Later,
Dan