Oil & Fuel TC40DA: Oil change nightmare.

[shade tree welder]

Sorry to hear of your oil change debacle, SHADE. It is good that you
posted so other NH owners are warned.

That was my main intent. Do I know you? using my nickname? Hmmmm

What is amazing to me is that your dealer's mechanics have not heard of
this issue, and not hydro-locked other NH tractors in for oil changes.
2 liters/minute is a VERY slow fill rate. I would expect more out-of-
warranty dead NH units would be for sale. (I have been looking for a
NH tractor project.)

Well, keep in mind I live in the corn belt and all the serious farmers
consider this a toy tractor and barely a step up from a peddle tractor.
They do not sell many of the compacts around here.

For example the farmer we buy our calves from has 3 NH's his smallest is
in the 80-100 Hp range. Biggest I would guess at 450-500 Hp. Mine is a
tiny 40 Hp.

I notice that the fill tube on top of the valve cover is quite tall. It seems
to me that this will increase the chance of filling too fast and getting oil
into the intake manifold. It is so crowded under the hood of newer
tractors, I see why makers put a long fill port in there. Others, including
mine, have a 2nd port on the front cover. Too bad Shibaura neglected
that upgrade before this happened.

Completely agree, in addition, the neck of the quart oil bottle fits quite nicely
in the fill tube.

The thread on the bottom of the fill tube is the same as the thread on the
fill tube cap. So once I get the timing gear cover replaced I will eliminate the
fill tube. Out of sight out of mind. Also I am going to place a tag on it that
says do not use and use some Loctite 222 (low strength) to Lock the cap in
place.

 

[shade tree welder]

purdy new parts...

 

[Fanlo2300]

I have a 2003 Case IH DX33, and the Operator's Manual has no mention of this procedure for engine oil filling (ref. pages 3-6 and 3.7).

It simply says:

To change the engine oil:

1. Place a suitable container beneath the drain
opening to catch the used oil. With the tractor
engine off but at normal operating temperature,
remove the drain plug (1). Reinstall the plug after
all of the oil has been drained.

2. Next, place a container below the oil filter, 1, to
catch the used oil and unscrew the oil filter.
Discard the used oil and filter.

3. Coat the gasket on the new filter with a film of
clean oil. Screw the filter into place until the
gasket contacts its mating surface, then turn the
filter approximately three-quarters of a turn by
hand. Do not overtighten.

4. Add the proper type and level of new oil, then
start the engine and check the filter for leaks.[/I]

 

[RADIUM]

Sorry to hear, and not to say I'm one that sticks up for new Holland as other people will tell you on this site, but when I owned a TC 40 DA the owner's manual had a yellow page laid inside the manual with warning on top in large letters that explains to add oil slowly and not to cause it to overflow the cylinder or basically hydraulic lock. In my 2420 manual it also recommends to add oil slow when using large containers and not to overfill the valve cover. I'm not trying to be funny or rude I just think your dealer did a disservice to you. my dealer told me on delivery day of the tractor to be careful when adding or changing the oil this was back in 2006 once again I hope everything works out but I think this is your dealer's fault for not going over a checklist with you not new Holland's I can't believe I'm saying that LOL this is the excerpt from my 2420s manual it does not have the yellow page like the TC 40 had but it is in print and it does tell you to be careful take care

 

[shade tree welder]

...but when I owned a TC 40 DA the owner's manual had a yellow page laid inside the manual with warning on top in large letters that explains to add oil slowly and not to cause it to overflow the cylinder or basically hydraulic lock.

People always destroy their own arguement with the big BUT.

It was nice for NH to put a large YELLOW warning, with the word WARNING in
yellow with you OM. Mine did not have that, it did have the following...

....So I dig up the Owner's Manual and find the
following tidbit at the end of the procedure on the second page, ref 01.

The scan of the text from my manual is attached to my first post. My
complaint is that they did their best to hide it, why? I am assuming your
model was pre 2007? If so and they new the issue existed why not
continure the practice of the big yellow warning sheet, a large sheet of yellow
or red paper cannot cost more than a few cents heck you can even copy the
text on it for pennies... a small warning on the next page after the oil
change procedure does not cut it in my book. They have sticker under the
hood that are useless like the maint. schedule, how about a 50 cent sticker
for a fill the oil slowly... BTW, 2 liters a minute is barely a trickle of oil.

 

[RADIUM]

I'm not trying to make an argument :-( as someone who's dealt with new Holland on major issues from a transmission replacement right to the last issue of loader frames cracking within two years of ownership. Whether the letter was included or not with your manual the dealer should have explained it to you with the delivery of a new tractor or used. The other point you bring up is very interesting my 2420 is a 2008 tractor that's where I took that photo from my manual it's not hidden it's right below the oil recommendations rather large print, however it did not have the yellow warning paperwork. Perhaps they will start including a large warning label tied to the steering wheel or something you're correct in that , unfortunately I still think it falls back on the dealer not explaining it to you take care and good luck

 

[fcardwell]

I had a similar experience with a TC26DA, however it would not start, just hydro locked. After I got the oil out of the cylinders, it did start and smoked a lot for about 60 seconds and then cleared up. Everytime I start it cold, the same thing happens with the smoke and it miss fires as well, then clears up. I'm suspecting a bad injector, but not sure. I did the same thing with the Harbor freight compression gauge, only there wasn't an adaptor small enough, so I ordered one from another place (same as small Kubota engine injector size). Anyway, all of my cylinders were very nearly the same compression. I haven't invested in any injectors yet. I did talk to 3 different dealerships about the problem and none had experienced it??? Somebody knows it is a problem and they are afraid to admit it. I appreciate the service bulletin..I'm going to take that with me to CNH and see where it gets me. I love the tractor and it makes me sick that something so seemingly benign as changing oil could cause such a catastrophic problem.

 

[shade tree welder]

UPDATE: My dealer contacted their NH rep, he (NH) is picking up the cost of
the repair parts. Very good news, I have to pay for the change in Timing
Gear Cover, the dealer asked, rep said no, that is fine I will live with that.

I am happy with that result.

...I still think it falls back on the dealer not explaining it to you take care and good luck

I agree but the factory needs to clearly communicate this to the dealer
first, I believe this was not been done. Part of their conversation was next
trip out the NH rep is going to have a short training class on this very issue.

I have done business with this dealer for a decade, they are very good. If
they had known they would have told me. They spent over an hour with
me and my wife going over the tractor and loader and their operation.

 

[Jbrink64]

I had a similar experience with a TC26DA, however it would not start, just hydro locked. After I got the oil out of the cylinders, it did start and smoked a lot for about 60 seconds and then cleared up. Everytime I start it cold, the same thing happens with the smoke and it miss fires as well, then clears up. I'm suspecting a bad injector, but not sure. I did the same thing with the Harbor freight compression gauge, only there wasn't an adaptor small enough, so I ordered one from another place (same as small Kubota engine injector size). Anyway, all of my cylinders were very nearly the same compression. I haven't invested in any injectors yet. I did talk to 3 different dealerships about the problem and none had experienced it??? Somebody knows it is a problem and they are afraid to admit it. I appreciate the service bulletin..I'm going to take that with me to CNH and see where it gets me. I love the tractor and it makes me sick that something so seemingly benign as changing oil could cause such a catastrophic problem.

Usually when they hydro lock, very little, if any damage occurs. A start and a bang-damage. I would suspect a glow plug failed by what your symptoms are.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Ther shoud be a BIG warning sticker. What is going to happen when these tractors start getting sold used and the new owner doesn't get the owners manual.The first thing I do when I buy somthing used is change the oil. How many times had you changed the oil without this happening? It seems somthing has to be in a certain position for this to happen. BTW the boys at Union Hill are verry helpfull.
Bill

 

[JC-jetro]

Ther shoud be a BIG warning sticker. What is going to happen when these tractors start getting sold used and the new owner doesn't get the owners manual.The first thing I do when I buy somthing used is change the oil. How many times had you changed the oil without this happening? It seems somthing has to be in a certain position for this to happen. BTW the boys at Union Hill are verry helpfull.
Bill

The change needs to be done with design and not " right procedure". All the vehicles I had or friends and family had only needed opening the oil cap somewhere on valve cover and pour, no matter slow or fast. What would be wrong to use PVC port as a oil fill port in this design, provide the dia of the port is adequate?

JC.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

Thanks for the heads up, I am going to be a lot more careful when I change oil from now on.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

The change needs to be done with design and not " right procedure". All the vehicles I had or friends and family had only needed opening the oil cap somewhere on valve cover and pour, no matter slow or fast. What would be wrong to use PVC port as a oil fill port in this design, provide the dia of the port is adequate?

JC.

JC from what the OP has stated I think they already changed the design. Do they do recalls on tractors?
Bill

 

[fcardwell]

Glow plugs were my first thought too. They each test OK (resistance). I understand that the best way to test them is to pull them out and apply 12V from a battery directly to each one. It should glow cherry red. Does that sound reasonable to others? I haven't tried it yet. One service person said I probably had a bent valve stem that was straightening out as it got heated up. Anyone heard of that before? I would think the compression test while the engine is cold would have detected that. It really does behave exactly like what I would expect a bad glow plug to do. I haven't yet been able to tell which cylinder is the culpret or if they are all part of the problem. The coloring of the plugs looks about the same to me. I suppose that is because it clears up and runs fine and that burns the soot off.

 

[Jbrink64]

Glow plugs were my first thought too. They each test OK (resistance). I understand that the best way to test them is to pull them out and apply 12V from a battery directly to each one. It should glow cherry red. Does that sound reasonable to others? I haven't tried it yet. One service person said I probably had a bent valve stem that was straightening out as it got heated up. Anyone heard of that before? I would think the compression test while the engine is cold would have detected that. It really does behave exactly like what I would expect a bad glow plug to do. I haven't yet been able to tell which cylinder is the culpret or if they are all part of the problem. The coloring of the plugs looks about the same to me. I suppose that is because it clears up and runs fine and that burns the soot off.

Resistance is the best check, as I recall, each should be about 1.5-1.8 ohms. Taking them out and applying 12v could burn out "fast glow plugs" they're 6 v and use timers. Bent valves stay bent. Lots of the time, the smaller ( less than 30 hp) pre-combustion engines will smoke and miss for a minute or two on cold days, then clear up.

 

[fcardwell]

Thanks for the info. As I recall the resistance was in the range you cited and they were all very close to the same. The smoking and missing issue occurs any time of year, but only when I first start it. Once it warms up, no problem restarting. Thanks again for your response.

 

[shade tree welder]

BTW the boys at Union Hill are verry helpfull.
Bill

Hey neighbor, I live over between Essex and Bonfield, Wilmington address with a Hersher phone number, go figure?!?
Kerry, Chris, Kurt and the crew are great!

JC from what the OP has stated I think they already changed the design. Do they do recalls on tractors?
Bill

The TC40DA is now the TC2310, on the 2310 eliminated the extended fill
tube on the valve cover so with the A/C, Power steering res the Air cleaner
and the muffler you cannot reasonably get to that fill point, and they added
the fill point on the timing gear cover, so only the models in the service
bulletin I posted at the beginning of the thread are effected.

Recalls, yes they do but they are not under the same requirements as
vehicle (car truck) mfrs as the NTSB is not involved in off road vehicles.
But they did not and should do one here, at least a mail out warning to all
the registered owners.

When this is all over I am going to write a letter to NH, and professionally
by clearly state my displeasure in this incident.

I understand that the best way to test them is to pull them out and apply 12V from a battery directly to each one. It should glow cherry red. Does that sound reasonable to others?

NNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! All glow plugs are 6V animals. Check them with
an ohmmeter only!

Resistance is the best check, as I recall, each should be about 1.5-1.8 ohms. Taking them out and applying 12v could burn out "fast glow plugs" they're 6 v and use timers. Bent valves stay bent. Lots of the time, the smaller ( less than 30 hp) pre-combustion engines will smoke and miss for a minute or two on cold days, then clear up.

Quick update the new piston and rod went in smoothly last night, plastigage
was at a clearance of 0.0017" which was right were you would want it.
Spec was 0.0014-0.0033" Oil pan and oil pan gasket installed with no issues
tonight I will get the Sensitrac clutch reinstalled and then I should be done
crawling on the ground.

I just got done reading the manual for the head installation and I think they
go me the wrong head gasket, ****...

 

[jonyyuma]

Oh boy, Always helps to have the correct part. Now we can discuss gasket sealers or lack there of on it, what did the manual say? BTW. You can test the glow plug, out of the motor with 12 volts, it only take seconds and it will get hot. It does not have to turn cherry red before you disconnect power to it. Resistance to each glow plug should be about the same.Jy.

 

[Welshman]

I've been following this thread, mainly out of curiousity, because I own an '07 T1520. I'm about due for another oil change and checked my service manual yesterday to make sure of which oil weight I've been using (short memory). I was shocked to see this same warning in a bold block in my service manual. I can't believe I've missed it, apparently a half a dozen times before. I've never done anything special adding oil before. Thanks for the alert! I may have missed it, but what size oil containers did you use when you had this problem?

 

[shade tree welder]

I may have missed it, but what size oil containers did you use when you had this problem?

Quarts this time, NH brand 10W-30 cause I have a heck of a time finding
a CI/CJ service (diesel engine oil) in 10W-30 around here. But I have used
gallons and 2.5 gallon jugs before. Now what I have been doing is inverting
the quart bottle in the filler neck and letting it drain in. I think the colder
temps and as a result the oil being thicker was the issue here more than the
container size.

I do on occasion run Delvac 1 5W-40 in the summer, but always change to
10W-30 for winter use.