HF mower?

[jake98]

Just because they're selling it at $265 doesn't mean anything about the production cost. They may be dumping them for lots of reasons. If you get a good one at an auction for $50 it doesn't represent much either.

 

[Dargo]

if machined in.. I'd pass... if not supported on both sides.. I'd likely pass too.

Which process would be the absolute cheapest in production? That should give you about a 99% accurate response to your questions.

 

[Dargo]

Just because they're selling it at $265 doesn't mean anything about the production cost.

Really?! I suppose all those professors in all the years I took economics classes are all wrong and I must just be just plain lucky with my business models in creating the businesses I've created.

I have to say that I find the odds of this manufacturer selling under cost to put the next lowest manufacturer out of business rather slim since the next lowest manufacturer is possibly the same plant or one right down the road owned by the same Chinese corporation. Sorry, but prices are set due to specific criteria, they are not set 'just because'.

 

[rtimgray]

I would bet what Jake meant is that there is a chance that the units may be being sold for less than normal profit or for no profit at all. There are times that it is better for a manufacturer to get "something" out of goods than nothing at all.

Example: I work for a food manufacturing company that private labels retail foodstuffs. Sometimes we "forecast" and go ahead and package thousands of cases of "Company X" saltines. These items have a 6 month shelf life. Time comes and goes, and Company X doesn't place an order. When we are in the 5th month of the shelf life and the product hasn't shipped, we have two choices: Sell to a salvage store or scrap it. If we scrap it, we get pig food prices. If we sell it to a salvage store, we take less of a loss. Most of the time, we will sell to the salvage so that we lose less money.

Either way, this is obviously not a sustainable business model, but it does happen. We manufacturer thousands and thousands of SKUs on a 10 calendar day turnaround, so we have to "forecast". And just like the weatherman, sometimes we forecast wrong.

Maybe HF forecast how many mowers they were going to sell, and here we are at the end of the season, and they still have 10,000 mowers taking up space. They may have the choice of sitting on them to sell next year, but in the meantime, they planned on using that storage space for new inventory coming in. Now they have a choice: sell the mowers for less and get them out of the way, or buy/lease/rent more storage space so that they have room for both the mowers that didn't sell and the inventory that is coming in. Now, it will end up costing MORE to not sell the mowers, so you sell the mowers for a minimal profit, or no profit at all, just so you don't sink more money into them.

I have no idea if this is the case with the mowers, but I know that it happens with crackers. And like Brent says, we don't normally sell under cost - 'cause that doesn't make shareholders happy at all.

 

[Soundguy]

Which process would be the absolute cheapest in production? That should give you about a 99% accurate response to your questions.

a machined in bearing race would be cheap.. and I can see them doing that.

a setup with an unsupported R&P ? hmm.. I actually don't see them doing that.. it would take a special housing with perhaps 2 bearings at the front and lower area to support the shafts.. and if they are doing that.. why do anything special.. and just have then equally supported. ive seen stamped cover plates with alignment fixtures on the other end for shaft / bushing/beairng.

bushings on that rear support would be sub optimal.. but again.. i can see them using a yellow metal bushing on the rear, and a machined in race in the front.. that would be imho.. a very cheap to make setup, as the rear plate could be welded on a jig with a section of pipe welded to it, and then a piece of bearing bronze reamed to fit with an oil passage for splash lube pressed in, and then all that slid into place on the cast box..

the rear bush COULD be serviced.. agravating.. but serviceable. the front face / race? might be a deal killer. once it wears you have 2 options.. weld and regrind.. probably work and cost mor ethan worth.. might have cracking issues... or cut for a standard race.. which might not be an option due to web thickness ( lack thereof ).

I think it's time for someone to push HF for a gearbox breakdown

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

i was looking at his statment just the opposite. not deficit production, just gross profits.

IE.. produce the box as cheap as possible, then sell it based on similar market products average retail cost. IE.. if similar mower boxes cost 200-300$.. sell this one for that. even if it cost 15$ to make and some slave labor...

another option no one has mentioned is a replacement box. perhaps grab a box from a salvaged mower to replace this box if it dies. with the implement as cheap as it is.. you could do some kustomizin' to it and still be dollars ahead.

also.. are we sure this as a R&P setup, and not something odd like a worm?

soundguy

Really?! I suppose all those professors in all the years I took economics classes are all wrong and I must just be just plain lucky with my business models in creating the businesses I've created.

I have to say that I find the odds of this manufacturer selling under cost to put the next lowest manufacturer out of business rather slim since the next lowest manufacturer is possibly the same plant or one right down the road owned by the same Chinese corporation. Sorry, but prices are set due to specific criteria, they are not set 'just because'.

 

[Dargo]

I think it's time for someone to push HF for a gearbox breakdown

soundguy

Not me. It's waaay past the $20 limit I have on Horrible Freight gambles. I'd buy a goat before I'd waste nearly $400 at HF on a RFM.

 

[Soundguy]

good point. just how long can you set on inventory and store it.. and pay tangible taxes on it.

notice year end is right around the corner.. and notic ethe mowers just went clearance. my bet is the store don't want to pay tangible taxes on that stock. sell what you can and loose less. we all know HF moves and clearances items that have poor sales records.

almost like buying lawnmowers that are left on the lot when winter shows up... and the price drops 10-20% as clearance....

I have worked in the entertainment and around food service industries for a while now. it's not uncommon to give away service to sell product.. many times as a wash.. but it keeps product moved and opens inventory$$. also not uncommon to pay big$$ to book a name act, make the cover charge cover the act qand plated food, an dthen solely look at profit off of DRINK sakes and upcharges. that is VERY common. ie.. pay to make a situation happen where you can then sell to a crowd. and just hop ticket sales cover incoming show expenses. ie.. target ticket price around estimated seat sales, then do the math for per ticket price. if you target 80% capacity for break even.. then you actually make money off seats at 81%, and loose money at 79%

one of the big clients I work for does this on a monthly basis, rolling the dice each time that they will have enough buts in seats to cover show expenses, then just scrap some profit off alc sales... hard way to live.. but unless you are rich.. or have good engraving skills there's not much else to do anymore..

soundguy

I would bet what Jake meant is that there is a chance that the units may be being sold for less than normal profit or for no profit at all. There are times that it is better for a manufacturer to get "something" out of goods than nothing at all.

Example: I work for a food manufacturing company that private labels retail foodstuffs. Sometimes we "forecast" and go ahead and package thousands of cases of "Company X" saltines. These items have a 6 month shelf life. Time comes and goes, and Company X doesn't place an order. When we are in the 5th month of the shelf life and the product hasn't shipped, we have two choices: Sell to a salvage store or scrap it. If we scrap it, we get pig food prices. If we sell it to a salvage store, we take less of a loss. Most of the time, we will sell to the salvage so that we lose less money.

Either way, this is obviously not a sustainable business model, but it does happen. We manufacturer thousands and thousands of SKUs on a 10 calendar day turnaround, so we have to "forecast". And just like the weatherman, sometimes we forecast wrong.

Maybe HF forecast how many mowers they were going to sell, and here we are at the end of the season, and they still have 10,000 mowers taking up space. They may have the choice of sitting on them to sell next year, but in the meantime, they planned on using that storage space for new inventory coming in. Now they have a choice: sell the mowers for less and get them out of the way, or buy/lease/rent more storage space so that they have room for both the mowers that didn't sell and the inventory that is coming in. Now, it will end up costing MORE to not sell the mowers, so you sell the mowers for a minimal profit, or no profit at all, just so you don't sink more money into them.

I have no idea if this is the case with the mowers, but I know that it happens with crackers. And like Brent says, we don't normally sell under cost - 'cause that doesn't make shareholders happy at all.

 

[Argosy]

another option no one has mentioned is a replacement box. perhaps grab a box from a salvaged mower to replace this box if it dies. with the implement as cheap as it is.. you could do some kustomizin' to it and still be dollars ahead.

also.. are we sure this as a R&P setup, and not something odd like a worm?

soundguy

A replacement gearbox is always an option but chances are good you will also have to find a double pulley. The belt tension is set by sliding the gear box so the mounting holes need to match or you need to have the ability to make new slots. Not that hard, but why get involved on a cheap piece of equipment?

The shape of the gear box doesn't look like it would be a worm gear setup. Both shafts look like they are centered in the casting, one would have to be offset for the worm shaft.

It's possible to fix or improve nearly anything. But the question in my mind is why would you consider buying a piece of equipment on the cheap that you have to think ahead about how to repair, make improvements the manufacturer left off because of cost? A decent used mower really won't cost much more and the quality is built in, it doesn't have to be added on.

 

[OkieDave]

Would you take your family and fly a "Jinma" or "Chinese built" plane? Ken Sweet

Yes (Nanchang CJ-6), and we did aerobatics. Lots of fun!