Cheap hydro fluid (vs UDT/SUDT)- any problems? Really?

[Jay4200]

Please don't launch into the "I'd rather spend $50 now for cheap insurance" arguments when this topic comes up.

I'd simply like to know if anyone ever had any REAL problems due to putting a cheap (UDT-compatible) hydro fluid into their tractor. For real. I'm interested in significant performance differences and/or mechanical failures that could be traced to the fluid. Here-say stories are welcome too.

I guess I'm curious if the off-brand fluid fears are based on superstition and unfounded, or if there is any basis in historical fact.

JayC

 

[TripleR]

My father in law owned a bulk distributorship for Simpson, Sinclair and ARCO over the years as the names were bought out. He sold fuel and lubricants to stations and farms of all sizes. Farmers used these fluids in all manner of machinery without any reported problems.

I have used different brands in our tractors and to this date have experienced no problems. I am using Kubota fluids right now, but don't know what I will use at my next change.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go put on my asbestos suit.

 

[BruceWard]

While not cheap but less than half the price of UDT and supposedly as good or better than SUDT I replaced the fluid in my B21 with Mystik JT-5 and it works great. Before the JT-5 flush and filter replacement I broke a hose and added about a gallon and a half of fluid from Walmart which worked just fine.

A lot of the complaints I have heard about using anything other than SUDT have come from BX owners. I suspect that the BX may be more picky due to everything being so small. These complaints mainly seem to be transmission whine. I guess that could be annoying when you mow the lawn.

My Dad and Grandfather have used whatever hydraulic fluid was closest or cheapest in their Ford, Massey and Farmall tractors for decades without any problem.

 

[bp fick]

This is a true story and one I have logged more than once. Someone will tell you to use the search engine, but I understand the direct and specific nature of the inquiry.

The answer to your question(s) is Yes and Yes.

Yes, I have used TSC's premium and yes, I had severe issues, had to drain the entire HST (it was at 50 hours anyhow) and re-fill with SUDT. The issues immediately, remarkably so, disappeared. The issues were foaming and very loud HST whine, well, louder than the loud whine BXs are rather known to produce. I also had a jerky joystick and that's never fun.

This was on a BX. That needs to be said.

Let me further venture some speculation. The smaller hydro transmissions seem to be, seem to be, the most culpable in this. I'm reasonably sure it is the smaller pumps, passageways, etc. In any case, I think you'll find this issue come more often with BXs on TBN than on larger units.

 

[KennyV]

I guess I'm curious if the off-brand fluid fears are based on superstition and unfounded, or if there is any basis in historical fact.

JayC

Hi JayC...
There are always those that are going to assume that anything that has a higher price tag is going to be a superior product... even if it is the exact name brand product... Take groceries and staples... I have known folks that are convinced that breakfast cereal from the local store chain is somehow different than the exact box they could buy at WalMart for less. There are just going to be those that can not understand it.

As you know I have always used TSC premium UDT. I would not mind trying a good synthetic (like Chevron) but I will never buy a multi viscosity mineral based oil that is only PRICED like a synthetic... and originally only assumed to be synthetic (based on the price, and some such ambiguous claims)...
At initial start up multi viscosity is going to have a slight advantage. (slight)...

To answer your question NO I have never seen that anyone, (even dealers that use another name brand fluid in Kubotas) ever have a real hydraulic short coming...

BUT it is imposable to convince the 'true believer' They will always cling to the magic properties of any particular name brand... KennyV

 

[KennyV]

A lot of the complaints I have heard about using anything other than SUDT have come from BX owners. I suspect that the BX may be more picky due to everything being so small.

Let me further venture some speculation. The smaller hydro transmissions seem to be, seem to be, the most culpable in this. I'm reasonably sure it is the smaller pumps, passageways, etc. In any case, I think you'll find this issue come more often with BXs on TBN than on larger units.

These two both are no doubt going to be the real differences that are being experienced...
and I would also suspect that using a very good synthetic, that has a better flow characteristic and better anti foaming is going to be good... and priced about the same as SUDT...

 

[slowzuki]

Not failures but standard hydro fluid works very poorly in HST transmissions in cold temperatures. I suspect the starving would lead to pump damage over time.

We have a different product in Canada called Premium UDT that works very well. I've started using it in other cold hydraulic systems (snowplow pump) and it works well.

Oh yes, my L5030 came with use UDT, used to take a long time for the hydro to start working right in winter, you'd let off the pedal, get stopped, then go to start again, nothing would happen for a few seconds then bang it would take off. The premium UDT fixed that except when its -30 to -35.

 

[Tnbilly]

Shouldn't be any need for flame-proofing

I've always wanted to put in synthetic like Amsoil as I truly believe it is better in performance but never being able to rationalize the 3x expense over standard I STILL haven't used it. I know some if a lot of the farmers here I know don't change the fluid unless it's needed for repair, some sell the tractor before they've changed the fluid. That's the real practice on the ground so to speak. That's not my recommendation mind you, just stating the outside argument. That would be with only a handful of manufacturers actually making the stuff, I believe if it is stated to make spec of your tractor then what's the problem? With Amsoil synthetic at $120~, my manufacturers branded oil ~$110 per bucket I decided to go with Citgo/Mystic JT-5 It's $65 locally but I know places like Blains Farm & Fleet up north sell it for $49 The JT-5 meets almost all the tractor specs except the specifically cold weather fluids.

Ron

 

[jbrody44]

The counter man at my local Kubota dealer (also a new holland dealer) suggested I use the Ambra (NH brand hydro fluid) for my L3400 HST. I dont think they even stock the udt in 5 gallon size because they also feel it is a rip off. It has been flawless in my machine, even in cold new england winter mornings. May be different for a bx, but I will save my money for other things again next time. I know loggers around here that use any hydro fluid they can get in all of their machines and have for decades with no problems caused by the fluid.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

We buy oils by the tanker and have a 20,000 gallon plus dist system for 10-12 kinds of oils, yet we still buy SUDT in 55 gallon drums. Small machines (RTV,BX,Turf, etc) all whine and jerk with lesser oils, in larger equipment and gear transmissions its far less important.