Whats the Rachet Noise ?

[Gordon Gould]

I was skidding out some firewood this morning with my L3010 Gear Transmission tractor and Farmi Winch. I got a small log I was winching hung up behind a very short stump and thought I should be able to get over it. I pumped the lanyard a couple times with medium pressure and it didn't come so I gave it A good hard pull to really put on the pressure. The tractor was anchored well and the cable was tight. I heard a rachet noise that I never heard before. It came from the pto or the winch. I have been using this equipement for nine years and have slipped the winch clutch before but never heard this rachet noise. But I rarely pull that hard on the lanyard. I have an independent pto.
Any ideas what it was or what it means ? Where I never heard it before I am wondering if a problem is developing.
After I freed the log, which I should have done before, every thing seemed normal even with some pretty hefty logs.

 

[leonz]

Hello Gordon,


It may just be that you slipped a tooth if the winch has a spiral bevel gear on it ; It probably will not hurt to look at the gear oil in the winches gear box to look for metal fragments as you may or may not have broken a tooth.

Forgive me the the question Gordon but do you have a limited slip friction disc clutch on the P.T.O. shaft?

 

[Gordon Gould]

The winch has a gear reduction through a chain drive, no gear box. The PTO turns a small gear. Chain turns a large gear. Then there is a clutch between the large gear and the cable drum. The clutch pressure is controled by the lanyard pull. The chain is not slack and could not have allowed the drive gear to to jump. The tractor, in the past, could always over power the winch clutch and make it slip. I do not have a separate additional slip clutch on the PTO shaft. I am wondering if there is something in the PTO that could make this noise.

 

[leonz]

Now that I know whats what Gordon. the sprocket jumped- we have had that happen with carwash pit cleaners which use chains to move the booms in one controlled movement (if the pits dirt was deep and hard the suction created by the clamshell bucket dipping and lifting up to break the suction if the bucket was set too deep.

As long as the chain is not used to time the movement of a boom its not an issue.

I see a sheave block in your future

 

[Gordon Gould]

So your saying that it is definately in the winch. There is nothing in the PTO that could account for that noise ? To me that is good news. It is the PTO I am concerned about.

That chain is short and pretty tight it is hard for me to imagine the sprocket jumping but ... who knows. What can I check to see if that was it?
I wonder if it could have been clutch chatter when it slipped that caused a loose choker chain to vibrate or something.

I probably worry to much but it was so strange to hear a noise like that.

 

[leonz]

So your saying that it is definately in the winch. There is nothing in the PTO that could account for that noise ? To me that is good news. It is the PTO I am concerned about.

That chain is short and pretty tight it is hard for me to imagine the sprocket jumping but ... who knows. What can I check to see if that was it?
I wonder if it could have been clutch chatter when it slipped that caused a loose choker chain to vibrate or something.

I probably worry to much but it was so strange to hear a noise like that.

Hello Gordon,

They can and will jump Gordon; The chains rollers precipitate that as they do roll,
anyone with a car wash pit cleaner will tell you that as it will screw the timing up and the upper and lower boom will not allow the clam shell bucket to dump in the trailer.


Is that chain powered in both directions? if it is it can not have ANY SLACK period.


The only way to be sure is to paint a spot on the sprocket and a spot on the chain to be a starting point just in case it happens again as there is no way to tell other wise.

 

[Baby Grand]

Gordon-
Any chance it was a loosely wound turn of cable on the drum pulling tight and jumping as it slipped tight around the drum or neighboring turns?
-Jim

 

[Gordon Gould]

Gordon-
Any chance it was a loosely wound turn of cable on the drum pulling tight and jumping as it slipped tight around the drum or neighboring turns?
-Jim

Well I don't really know what it was. But I have heard that cable crunching noise before and this was much different. But thinking about it maybe several turns or a whole layer tightening up could make a noise like that. Some times I don't have a lot of weight on it when I pull it in.

leonz, the chain only goes in one direction. Putting a timing marker on the chain and sprocket is a good idea. But will only work if the number of links in the chain is an even multiple of the number of cogs on the sproket. ( I think ) I'll try to think of a way to do this and try to recreate the situation.

 

[Dead Horse]

Gordon, my farmi 601 does the same thing..........under the same conditions. i know it is not the PTO because my big tractor would turn that implement (or any for that matter) into a pretzel given the chance.....

I have tightened the chain tensioner, which is not a real good design for holding tension. That may be on purpose though as it looks to be the weakest link by far on the whole mechanism. It "gives" before something breaks.

I first thought it was clutch chatter, but it only happens when I am putting all the tug I can into the lanyard and a log does not want to free up. My clutch is in excellent shape, so I think it is the small sprocket jumping the chain.

It certainly does get one's attention though!

My advice is 1) tighten up the chain and 2) ease up on the lanyard.......

 

[Gordon Gould]

I tried to repete the the noise by hooking on to a stump with the tractor well anchored. I put a mirror in behind the drum so I could watch the chain w/o sticking my head in there. Of course there was no noise when I put on the pressure. As much or more than yesterday.
I did notice that the cable is wound on the drum in a conical shape so I am going to assume that I heard the cable skipping along turn to turn along the slope as it was tightened as Baby Grand suggested.
I feel a little like the boy who cryed wolf but new noises always concern me.
Thanks for the input guys.

gg

 

[Dead Horse]

Well, as you told the story, the noise occured when the log jamed and the cable drum had stopped turning.

If the cable is not being spooled, the drum is not turning.................

 

[Gordon Gould]

Well, as you told the story, the noise occured when the log jamed and the cable drum had stopped turning.

If the cable is not being spooled, the drum is not turning.................

OK - I guess I need some help understanding what you are trying to say.
You say yours does this often? And you attribute it to the sprocket.

I'm was thinking the pto was turning but clutch was slipping and the cable was positioned just right to skip along the turns because it was not wound turn to turn on the spool and had lots of pressure on it. Wouldn't you think that if it was the sprocket that it would skip anytime I had that much pressure on the clutch ?

 

[Dead Horse]

Sorry, no. My winch only did this once this past year and I was "pushing" it....several big logs, pulling up a hill, stump hangup.

It is an old winch but I rebuilt it a year ago last summer.

Before I rebuilt it (new thrust and input shaft bearings) it would do this more often (maybe 3 or 4 times the previous season). The input bearings were quite bad and I believe that made tightening the chain tensioner rather ineffective.

Since the rebuild, it has done this only once. BTW when I rebuilt the winch I also retensioned the chain, but I erred on the "not TOO tight" side of the equation.

"It" is a loud ratcheting sound accompanied by some attention getting vibration.............and the cable is not moving. Hope that is clearer.

PS I find that when I do get a cable bind it is because I allowed the tension on the cable to vary to widely over a short period. IE if I take up the slack easy...........and then ease into the tension on the clutch lanyard, I generally do not get cable bind on the spool.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Sorry, no. My winch only did this once this past year and I was "pushing" it....several big logs, pulling up a hill, stump hangup.

It is an old winch but I rebuilt it a year ago last summer.

Before I rebuilt it (new thrust and input shaft bearings) it would do this more often (maybe 3 or 4 times the previous season). The input bearings were quite bad and I believe that made tightening the chain tensioner rather ineffective.

Since the rebuild, it has done this only once. BTW when I rebuilt the winch I also retensioned the chain, but I erred on the "not TOO tight" side of the equation.

"It" is a loud ratcheting sound accompanied by some attention getting vibration.............and the cable is not moving. Hope that is clearer.

PS I find that when I do get a cable bind it is because I allowed the tension on the cable to vary to widely over a short period. IE if I take up the slack easy...........and then ease into the tension on the clutch lanyard, I generally do not get cable bind on the spool.

OK thanks - That all makes sense. I guess I'll never really know what it was unless it starts happening alot. I dont know how loud it was but I had on hearing protectors (muffs) over a hard hat liner that covered my ears and had no trouble hearing it. I let the lanyard go immediately. Just prior I was pumping the lanyard to try to bounce the log free (I know - not good) so the cable was cycling between tight and slack which would make it whip around on the drum. As you point out that can cause a bind.

 

[Dead Horse]

Ok, understood.......... One other bit of info you might find useful. Farmi makes their owner manuals available on the internet. You can down load your model manual and it will tell you exactly how to tension the chain........

I bet if you check it, the chain is not quite tight enough. I know mine is not, and it is the dirst thing I will deal with in the spring.

My winching season is over, thankfully.

 

[leonz]

Hello Gordon,


I was wondering how often you oiled your cable?

 

[Gordon Gould]

Hello Gordon,


I was wondering how often you oiled your cable?

Never ?? From your question I assume that isn't good. My manual says to keep all oil and grease away from the drum so it doesn't spread onto the clutch so I have never oiled the cable.

I will check the chain tension specs and proceedure Dead Horse - Thanks.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Ok, understood.......... One other bit of info you might find useful. Farmi makes their owner manuals available on the internet. You can down load your model manual and it will tell you exactly how to tension the chain........

I bet if you check it, the chain is not quite tight enough. I know mine is not, and it is the dirst thing I will deal with in the spring.

My winching season is over, thankfully.

I found the tension adjustment instructions in my winch manual. I am sure you are right and it is looser than it should be after nine years of usage.
I will tighten the chain before I head out this morning. Looks simple enough.
I enjoy the winter woods. The work is plenty hard enough so you don't get cold. The snow makes things a little slower though.

gg