Basic Hydraulics Question?

[kentrodngun]

Hi all. First off, Happy Holidays.
My qualifier is that I know diddlysquat about hydraulics, so be kind.

I bought myself an used Curtis snowplow for my tractor a couple of months ago. It has two single angle cylinders. I removed my bucket, installed the plow and I can lift it up & down. I figured I'd remove the quick connects on the valve & handle assembly for the dump & rollback features since I don't need these functions for the plow.

I attached, also using quick connects, the two single cylinder lines in the dump & rollback spots on the valve & handle assembly. When I moved the joy stick, the plow only angled in one direction. I reversed the quick connects and was able to move it in the other direction.

Is this normal? Is there anyway to make both cylinders function using my existing set-up? Any advice or insights would be very much appreciated.

 

[J_J]

Are the snow plow cyl single action SA? Does cyl have one of two hose going to cyl. Pictures of cyl and the valve you are using would be helpful.

 

[mmurphy]

Is this another regen valve setups? How many positions does this valve have on the tilt and roll back?

 

[kentrodngun]

I believe they are single action. Very simple stuff. Pictures attached.

 

[kentrodngun]

Is this another regen valve setups? How many positions does this valve have on the tilt and roll back?

Don't know if the attached will help answer your question as I admit, I don't understand what a regen set-up is.

 

[J_J]

In order to get a SA cyl to retract, you need an opposing force to push on the cyl rod. The angle cyl can be pushed in by the attachment, just by lowering and go forward. To lift the plow, power up and gravity down.

If your valve has regen, it provides a greater volume of fluid and will cause the cyl to operate faster, but with less power.

 

[kennyd]

Your problem is the "regen" or "regenerative" function of your valve. Read the first post in THIS thread for great info, also search the term "regen" for lots more reading.

What tractor/loader do you have?

 

[JD5210]

I read the post KennyD referenced and speaks to what is happening here.

Are there different forms of regen? The following was taken from the tech manual for of the 5X10. This explains at least to me, how the fast dump works.

The bucket spool is the inner spool valve of the dual selective control valve assembly. Besides the positions of neutral, extend, and retract, the bucket spool also has a regenerative position.

When the bucket spool moves inward to the regenerative position, neutral passages are blocked, causing a pressure rise at inlet passage. Oil flowing into inlet passage opens load check which allows oil flow to spool. Oil flows out extend port to head end of bucket cylinder. Oil returning through retract port from rod end of cylinder enters extend port and supplements flow passing to piston end of cylinder, causing bucket to dump faster.

 

[kentrodngun]

Your problem is the "regen" or "regenerative" function of your valve. Read the first post in THIS thread for great info, also search the term "regen" for lots more reading.

What tractor/loader do you have?

I've got an 1993 Kioti LK3054 with a KL122 loader.

I read the posts and now have a basic understanding of what regen is and why both cylinders cannot work. But, is there anyway to make the two cylinders work without a major upgrade to my spool valve set-up?

Suggestions would be most welcome.

 

[kennyd]

I've got an 1993 Kioti LK3054 with a KL122 loader.

I read the posts and now have a basic understanding of what regen is and why both cylinders cannot work. But, is there anyway to make the two cylinders work without a major upgrade to my spool valve set-up?

Suggestions would be most welcome.

You need to find out if you have a 4-way valve or not. I know on my machine there is a mechanocal lockout to prevent the joystick from moving into the regen position. I guess you need to call a dealer or the valve OEM. If you indeed only have a 3-way, then you could just add a new single spool valve after your FEL valve.

Have you tried pushing the joystick harder/further or not as far?

 

[LD1]

If you indeed do NOT have the 4-way, and cannot make the two SA plow cylinders work, Your simplest solution would probabally be to just buy 1 double acting cylinder. You wil give up a little bit of force for angleing in the direction that makes the cylinder retract, but that shouldnt be a huge deal.

And if you are handy enough with fabrication and all, you may even consider upsizing to maybe a 1/2" larger cylinder. This will compensate for the reduced force and slow things down a bit. Because snowplow pumps dont run as many GPM as out tractors, when it does angle, it probabally does so quite quickly.

 

[J_J]

Regen on the Prince valve is max bucket tip. Pull lever back for power position.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/LvsInstS.pdf

 

[tessiers]

I have the same setup on mine, You can use 2 single acting cylinders to act as 1 double acting. 2 hoses go to a double acting cylinder, with your setup you run 1 hose to each single. When you push 1 out it automaticly pushes the other in.

 

[kennyd]

I have the same setup on mine, You can use 2 single acting cylinders to act as 1 double acting. 2 hoses go to a double acting cylinder, with your setup you run 1 hose to each single. When you push 1 out it automaticly pushes the other in.

NOT if you have a 3-way valve!

 

[SHORT KID]

What is that little thing on the back of the plow in the first pix? Does your hoses go directly to the cylinders, it looks like they go into that thing. Was this setup designed for your tractor or something else? I used a Meyers setup on mine and it works pretty slick. Good Luck.

 

[kennyd]

What is that little thing on the back of the plow in the first pix? Does your hoses go directly to the cylinders, it looks like they go into that thing. Was this setup designed for your tractor or something else? I used a Meyers setup on mine and it works pretty slick. Good Luck.

That is a crossover relief valve, also called a "cushion" valve. it's NOT the problem.

 

[kentrodngun]

I have the same setup on mine, You can use 2 single acting cylinders to act as 1 double acting. 2 hoses go to a double acting cylinder, with your setup you run 1 hose to each single. When you push 1 out it automaticly pushes the other in.

Can this work? If so, I'm really a novice in the world of hydraulics and would need a basic diagram or picture to really understand what you're suggesting.

If it won't work (and I'm just rambling here) could I somehow add a bypass or re-directional valve block? My thought is to put the two cylinder lines into the block and have a valve on the block to select either line. The block would then have a line going into the joy stick and moving the stick would activate whichever cylinder the block allows it to flow to. Turning the directional valve on the block could then activate the other cylinder. Is the feasible? or am I daydreaming up something impossible? If it would work, I wonder what the block (if it exists) would cost?

Kenny, if this won't work, you mentioned adding a single spool. Any idea what this might run cost-wise? Again, I'd need a basic diagram to understand what I need to do.

Thanks to all for you input and patience with this hydraulics neophyte.

 

[kennyd]

Can this work? If so, I'm really a novice in the world of hydraulics and would need a basic diagram or picture to really understand what you're suggesting.

If it won't work (and I'm just rambling here) could I somehow add a bypass or re-directional valve block? My thought is to put the two cylinder lines into the block and have a valve on the block to select either line. The block would then have a line going into the joy stick and moving the stick would activate whichever cylinder the block allows it to flow to. Turning the directional valve on the block could then activate the other cylinder. Is the feasible? or am I daydreaming up something impossible? If it would work, I wonder what the block (if it exists) would cost?

Kenny, if this won't work, you mentioned adding a single spool. Any idea what this might run cost-wise? Again, I'd need a basic diagram to understand what I need to do.

Thanks to all for you input and patience with this hydraulics neophyte.

I already addressed what tessiers wrote...if you have only a 3-way valve, than no it won't work. You already have 2 SA (single acting) cylinders plumbed exactly the way he wrote.

Have you absolutely verified you have a 3-way valve?


Adding a valve would cost about $300 or so, Kioti may have a off-the-shelf option for a rear remote also.

Oh, and you are daydreaming up the impossible