VERY unhappy with John Deere's documentation

[sgoldste01]

OK, so I just bought a used GT245, and I decided to replace the hydro tranny fluid. I've been having a heck of a time getting the full 4.5 liters of fluid back into the tranny. I easily got the first 2 liters in, but over the past 5 days have only been able to add maybe 20 oz at a time by running the machine in forward/reverse, then waiting hours for the fluid level in the reservoir tank to drop below the FULL line. I've been repeating this process several times a day since I initially drained the tranny.

I noticed in the owner's manual that they specifically say NOT to remove a plastic cap on the top-left side of the tranny. See the "owner's_manual.jpg" attachment to see where they clearly say not to disturb this cap.

On the same day that I started this process I ordered the GT245 Technical Manual, which just arrived today. Well, what do you know? In the Tech Manual, they tell you to remove this same cap so that you can get fluid into
the differential gear side of the tranny! See the "tech_manual.jpg" attachment to see this.

I spent days trying to load the tranny with fluid as described in the owner's manual, only to find that there's a sure-fire way of doing this process in the tech manual that contradicts the owner's manual! Not only am I angry about the time I've wasted, but I'm also wondering if I could have damaged the tranny by running it with 2+ liters of fluid missing from it while I tried over and over again to get the fluid in as described in the owner's manual!

Why the **** would they provide a procedure in the owner's manual that doesn't work and might cause damage, but put a good procedure in the tech manual? Why can't owner's get the proper procedure?

 

[20 20]

I wonder if one direction is to top off, while the other set of directions is for an actual change?

 

[sgoldste01]

I wonder if one direction is to top off, while the other set of directions is for an actual change?

Nope. Changing the fluid is an authorized procedure in the owner's manual. The owner's manual very clearly states NOT to unscrew that cap, but rather to add all of the fluid through the reservoir tank. See the attachment below.

Pisses me off.

 

[Don87]

Hopefully everything is ok, but running the machine at half capacity for 5 days doesn't look good for longevity.
I noticed that it clearly states that the plug on the left must be removed to fill that section of the tranny, before the other plug.

A 2 stage refill procedure.

Best of luck,

 

[sgoldste01]

Hopefully everything is ok, but running the machine at half capacity for 5 days doesn't look good for longevity.
I noticed that it clearly states that the plug on the left must be removed to fill that section of the tranny, before the other plug.

A 2 stage refill procedure.

Best of luck,

Where did you notice that? My owner's manual says very clearly to NEVER remove that plug (see the first attachment in my original post).

It wasn't until I received the Tech Manual (which isn't a document that comes with the tractor; must be bought separately) that I learned I could remove the left plug and pour fluid into it.

 

[mfreund]

Deere must be tailoring the directions to the likely audience. The first is for a idiot homeowner, and the second for a skilled technician. Looks like Deere dosen't want inexperienced people adding too much fliud.

In all likelyhood the owners manual was written before the technical manual and the techs found out exactly what you found. Then Deere corrected the directions in later publications.

 

[sgoldste01]

Deere must be tailoring the directions to the likely audience. The first is for a idiot homeowner, and the second for a skilled technician. Looks like Deere dosen't want inexperienced people adding too much fliud.

They'd prefer that inexperienced people add too little fluid?

In all the time I was running with low fluid (approx 30 to 60 minutes max), the tractor sounded and acted normal. I wasn't doing anything rigorous with the machine; just rolling it forwards and backwards on my flat driveway (although I was running it at max speed much of the time). Hopefully this didn't cause harm.

It was the differential side of the tranny that had low fluid levels. Hopefully this side of the tranny is more tolerant of low fluid levels than the other side, which has the reservoir dumping into it.

 

[rilesdav]

I have the same tractor and did the same maintenance as stated on the owners Manuel just month or so ago. I assumed that since it states the 2 sides were internally connected fluid levels would equalize??? Did you have to top off the side it indicated not to remove. Thanks and this is good info
Dave

 

[sgoldste01]

I have the same tractor and did the same maintenance as stated on the owners Manuel just month or so ago. I assumed that since it states the 2 sides were internally connected fluid levels would equalize??? Did you have to top off the side it indicated not to remove. Thanks and this is good info
Dave

Yes, I had to top off the differential side of the tranny by adding almost 2 liters of fluid through the plug that the owner's manual says not to remove.

Were you able to get the full 4.4 liters of fluid into the tranny by only adding fluid through the reservoir tank? Or did your tranny take less than 4.4 liters?

 

[rilesdav]

Less than the 4 liters. I assumed that I did not completely empty the trans and that was why I used less. I spilled a bunch out of the top of the filler hole as I was not paying attention when i was pouring in the fluid. Thanks again, will be off to investigate tomorrow,
Dave

 

[sgoldste01]

Less than the 4 liters. I assumed that I did not completely empty the trans and that was why I used less. I spilled a bunch out of the top of the filler hole as I was not paying attention when i was pouring in the fluid. Thanks again, will be off to investigate tomorrow,
Dave

I'll bet you a six pack of beer that your tranny fluid is low on the differential side.

 

[sgoldste01]

In all likelyhood the owners manual was written before the technical manual and the techs found out exactly what you found. Then Deere corrected the directions in later publications.

I don't buy this explanation either. The owner's manual info I showed you in my original post is from JD's online owner's manual. While they can't easily update the paper manual I have in my hand, they could easily update the info on their web site. So you see, JD is still telling GT245 owner's to not remove the fill plug on the differential side of the tranny.

I'm a technical writer by trade, and a mistake with consequences as potentially serious/expensive as this pisses me off. If I have to spend hundreds of dollars fixing a problem because I followed their owner's manual directions, you can imagine how angry I will be.

I wonder if they continued this error in other model lines other than the GT? What about the LX? Or the current X500/X700 models?

 

[jenkinsph]

Yes, I had to top off the differential side of the tranny by adding almost 2 liters of fluid through the plug that the owner's manual says not to remove.

Were you able to get the full 4.4 liters of fluid into the tranny by only adding fluid through the reservoir tank? Or did your tranny take less than 4.4 liters?

I don't think you have to actually pour the fluid thru the hole with the black cap, just remove the cap to allow the oil to flow into the cavity. You can fill the entire transmission through the designated filler hole.

 

[2720wes]

I wonder if they continued this error in other model lines other than the GT? What about the LX? Or the current X500/X700 models?

My 2001 GT225 owner's manual says to use the bottom fill hole to fill the differential gear side and the top fill hole to fill the hydrostatic transmission side. I guess they corrected their mistake by then or got things right on the 225 manuals

The manual does say both sides are internally connected but have separate fill caps

 

[sgoldste01]

I don't think you have to actually pour the fluid thru the hole with the black cap, just remove the cap to allow the oil to flow into the cavity. You can fill the entire transmission through the designated filler hole.

Perhaps, but this is not what the GT245 Tech Manual says to do.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

You should see the manuals for most of the Chinese tractors...Maybe you could help them out and make some money too.

 

[sgoldste01]

My 2001 GT225 owner's manual says to use the bottom fill hole to fill the differential gear side and the top fill hole to fill the hydrostatic transmission side. I guess they corrected their mistake by then or got things right on the 225 manuals

The manual does say both sides are internally connected but have separate fill caps

Well, my GT245 is a model year 2003, so it looks to me like they had it right in 2001 and then got it wrong later.

It still baffles me as to why they would say not to remove that plug in the owner's manual. It's so easy to reach and use. What was their motivation to keep people away from that plug?

 

[rilesdav]

update,
I checked the diff side today and it was low, but I only needed to add about 1/2 quart. Still confusing and I am glad you brought this to my attention.
Thanks again,
Dave

 

[sgoldste01]

update,
I checked the diff side today and it was low, but I only needed to add about 1/2 quart. Still confusing and I am glad you brought this to my attention.
Thanks again,
Dave

Hi Dave,

Some questions for you:

• What oil did you put into your tranny? If you used JD's HyGard product, then I think it's actually 10W30 oil.
  
• What was the outdoor temperature when you added the new oil to your tranny?
  
• The spec says our trannies hold 4.5 quarts. You said you had to add 0.5 quarts today, which means you put in 4.0 quarts when you first did your fluid change. Were you able to put in that 4 quarts all at once, or did you have to frequently add some to the reservoir (and then run the tractor to remove air bubbles) in order to get that much fluid into the tranny?
  

I did research and determined that Tuff Torq (the manufacturer of our trannies) prefers synthetic 5w50 over JD's HyGard, so that's what I used (Castrol Syntec). In spite of the 5w rating, this oil seems to flow more thickly than HyGard, but I'm not sure. I'm wondering if that's why I had so much trouble getting fluid into the tranny. Also, I've been adding my fluid when outside temps are in the mid-20s, so that's not helping my flow rate either.

Of course, none of this would have been an issue had the owner's manual said that I could add fluid through the opening on the differential side of the tranny. But that's not the case.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[mfreund]

I don't buy this explanation either. The owner's manual info I showed you in my original post is from JD's online owner's manual. While they can't easily update the paper manual I have in my hand, they could easily update the info on their web site. So you see, JD is still telling GT245 owner's to not remove the fill plug on the differential side of the tranny.

I'm a technical writer by trade, and a mistake with consequences as potentially serious/expensive as this pisses me off. If I have to spend hundreds of dollars fixing a problem because I followed their owner's manual directions, you can imagine how angry I will be.

I wonder if they continued this error in other model lines other than the GT? What about the LX? Or the current X500/X700 models?

Call Deere and find out instead of bitching on a web board. Sounds like you just want to argue.... fix it and move on.