Shock Collar for Dog training

[Sigarms]

First sit,yes the dog has to allready know sit,they with the collar set as lowest setting untill it just gets the dog to say twitch,turn its head really anything,but there has to be a small change in what the dog was doing,then you push the button(shock) the dog and at the same time tell him to sit and once his(her)butt hits the ground you stop the shock

I would never use a training collar to teach basic commands. That comes with time and simple positive reinforcement.

You have to spend more time with them both individually and as a team. Keep them on a leash when training.

I think that can be said for any dog. Usually you get out of them what you put into them. The easiest way to ensure that your dog stays on your property is to always have them under supervision.

Try a "radio fence". They wear a dedicated collar and if they roam to the boundary they get a warning, then they get shocked. Unlike the buried kind, they cannot just skip past the boundary, they will continue to get shocked. I believe it will shut down after 30 seconds past the boundary, but that is a long time. The transmitter if placed centrally and high should have more than enough coverage for a good roaming area.

Never tried them, guess my worry would be if a dogs prey drive kicked in going after small game. I'm thinking the dog could get so far then be in "no man's land" getting the crap shocked out of it, and not knowing which way to go to stop the shock. Then I'm wondering if the full 30 seconds (shock) lasted, would the dog get shocked coming back to the house? You may never get your dog back. Again, we go back to having the dog under supervision.

As mentioned those are just a tool and the training is way more than Administering a corrective jolt. Timing is critical.

+1

One of the "problems" with e-collars is that they need to be on the dog. The smart dogs learn when the collar is on or off. When they have been trained with the collar they are usually very obedient. But when the collar in not on them they many times go back to the old behavior.

+1

I have a Sport Dog 1800. Innotech, and Tri-tronics are other brands. You can buy multiple collars for different dogs and use one controller. Plenty of range and mutiple levels of shock.

+1

I've gotten fond of the Dogtra series myself. Close to a mile in range, vibrate as well shock, as well as a continuous or "nick" per the shock or vibration, and a range from "1" to "127" per the strength of shock.

I use the tone first to give them the warning ......

+1

What if I gave the neighbor a remote to shock them in addition to one I would use to work on the running situation?.

I never give a transmitter to someone other than the master of the dog. You're asking for way too many mixed signals IMO.

As long as your dog is being supervised, there should be no reason to even think about giving the transmitter to someone else.

We live in a pretty rural/forested area with a national forest bordering on 2 sides so no one that way to complain about them running...........

Perhaps I'm reading it the wrong way, but just because there is no one to complain about your dogs running lose is no reason to let them.

Soooooo........2 problems

1. The BCs running when I dont want them to and how to get them to stop......

2. The momma LGD leading the way towards the neighbors and the BCs following and causing problems with neighbor dogs through the fence.......

One question, how many times does this behavior take place while the animals are under your direct supervision?

What I am wondering is how well do the shock collars work in this situation????

The key IMO is how much time do you spend with your animals outside? While your animals are outside, are they under human supervision?

If you're dogs are left outside unsupervised, and your plan is to shock them anytime you can't see them on your property, you will probably be shocking your dogs until they die. If your animals are under supervision while they and you are outside and you see them starting to roam off your property for whatever reasons, the combination of verbal commands, POSITIVE reinforcement along with the "proper" use of a training collar should greatly increase your chances of keeping your dogs on your property.

The ONLY reason why I use a training collar is for recall. Unless if the animals prey drive kicks in (rabbit running across the field), I haven't had use the shock mode in some time. On that note, NEVER use a training (shock) collar on dogs with aggression issues.

I'd highly suggest finding a collar that not only shocks, but also comes with an audible warning or vibrate warning as well, so you don't have to use only a "shock mode" for negative reinforcement. Keep in mind, you usually get what you pay for. For something that is going to last and hopefully have good customer service if there is a problem down the road per warranty, you usually get what you pay for. What I've found when it comes to "quality" training collars is that they are pretty much the same price no matter where you shop at.

 

[duck spy]

Sig,
Think you misread my post,you are right you do not use an e-collar to teach it is to reinforse a comand. I teach every thing with food rewards,and yes do it when they are verry young 8 week if pup is bought 5 weeks if my litter.
But if you look at e-collars as a hole they work better if part of a program and used for every thing.
I'll start them doing the 3 things first,sit and down,here,place, that way they know to stop,come to you,and go away the things you need to control our dog,from there force fetch(mostly training labs)
Timing is kind of a myth,if you train you dog to turn off the collar and not just getting burned for doing the wrong thing.
Why give a tone as a warning? Dog training is right or wrong if the dog knows he did wrong why warn,you are just lowering your standards as far as a trainer.

Why not use a collar on a dog with aggression issues?
I've worked with 100+ police k-9s,99% with aggression issues first thing is to put them into a e-collar program,most dept now allow there k-9 to work with a collar.

 

[Sigarms]

Timing is kind of a myth

I'm not a dog expert, but from my experience, timing has been everything per the key to getting both positive and negative reinforcement across to the animal as to what kind of behavior you're looking for.

If a dog comes back to your house after being gone, "scolding" it in a harsh voice will accomplish nothing from my experience. IMO you need to take corrective measures WHILE the animal is leaving your property line.

From my experience, if you're using a training collar for negative reinforcement, and you don't notify the animal DURING the unwanted behavior immediately, the animal may not be able to associate what behavior you find undesirable.

That is one reason why if I'm going to take a corrective measure with a training collar, I first utilize the vibrate (or audible) mode, then immediately utilize the shock mode. The animal then associates the vibrate (or audible) with the shock, and hopefully after a short time, you won't even need to use the shock mode.

I would also not use a training collar on a pup.

Why not use a collar on a dog with aggression issues?
I've worked with 100+ police k-9s,99% with aggression issues first thing is to put them into a e-collar program,most dept now allow there k-9 to work with a collar.

For myself, there is a difference (I hope) between a well trained dog working for a law enforcement agency and a dog off the street, where you're trying to determine how aggression issues first came into play with the animal and how to modify that unwanted behavior.

I don't know about trained GSH's, but I have seen first hand dogs with aggression issues who have had a shock collar on, and to be blunt, the only thing the collar does is create or add more to the aggression (I'd rather use a break stick on a dog than a training collar hoping to subdue the animal into submission). At least for myself, using an e-collar on an aggressive dog is kind of like throwing gas onto a fire after the behavior has taken place (per aggression). Keep in mind, I'm talking about AFTER the animal has their jaws gripped on something.

As mentioned previously before, a training collar is only one tool of many which need to be utilized in modifying an animals behavior.

 

[duck spy]

If you are going to use he quotelease do not edit my quote
1st one you left off where I wrote after the dog allready knows sit
2nd,it is a myth if you use a e-collar where the dog learns to turn the shock off.
Dogs are smarter than some people give them credit for,if my old dog is in the house and I have a steak out and he eats it I guarantee you when I walk in he will run out of the room,he knows he did wrong but I did not catch him in the act,same outcome for him.
We are just have to agree to disagre,my post were about how to use a e-collar,training the dog to turn the shock off,and not shocking the dog for doing wrong.
Dogs that are trained with a shock for a corection and do not know how to turn the shock off will usally as you wrote just power threw the burn,becuse they were not trained how to turn the burn off,also the same type of dog that when the collar is off the owner has little control of there dog.Tri tronics have a fair video teaching how to train by turning the shock off.
And yes I'm one that trains with the collar on and hunt with one on 50-75% of the time but also run field trials no collar.
most important thing is to enjoy your time with your dog,it never lasts long enough.

 

[duck spy]

Just reread your post,never said I used a collar on a pup depending on what you call a pup usally they start wearing a collar around 5 monhs.

You wrote about a e-collar being used with no affect on a dog that is aggresive,That is my point e-collars work best when they are part of a training program and are not a cure all.That is why a dog HAS to learn to turn the burn off,and most programs you stop the dog,call the dog and send the dog.

 

[whistlepig]

I understand and thanks........so teach the stop running and come back command FIRST to the younger one?............Using a cord is a good trick.....She tends to run ahead when we are in the RTV so that would be easy to get her to come back and stay close..........

Now, would the neighbor doing his thing with all three and using the command of "go Home" be to much?????????

Thanks guys.......Dennis

Teach them "DOWN", "NO" or "STOP" first. Whichever word you prefer to teach them. This is the first step. When you see your dog chasing a deer or anything else into traffic that is the most horrible of all feelings. You can start in the kitchen or your garage. Put their dog bowl down and say "NO". They shouldn't be allowed to eat until you say "OK". A shock collar is a supplemental training tool. Voice commands are your primary control. Teach them both at the same time. If one dog gets by with something the other sees this in an instance. And you need some fence. One can't keep an eye on a high energy dogs for every second. They need a place they can run free and burn energy off with out getting shocked or yelled out for doing so.

 

[Sigarms]

Dogs are smarter than some people give them credit for,if my old dog is in the house and I have a steak out and he eats it I guarantee you when I walk in he will run out of the room,he knows he did wrong but I did not catch him in the act,same outcome for him.

I once came back to our office in our home to find that one of the foster dogs in our care had decided to take a "snack" out of what I'd consider and expensive camera. Boy was I furious, as the camera was ruined.

My wife asked my why should I be mad at the dog when I was dumb enough to leave the camera where the dog could get at it?

I have five dogs that I can have sit side by side on the floor waiting for a hand signal to start eating out of their bowls. Until I give that signal, they will stay and leave the food alone. I leave a steak on the counter in the kitchen with those same dogs and I'm not around in that kitchen, I can't blame them for me leaving a steak out for them to grab (and yes, I've lost a couple of steaks). However, that's not their fault, that's my fault for leaving the steaks out where they can get to them while I'm not supervising them.

However, I'm guessing that when the dog sees your facial expression as well as body posture and perhaps tone in your voice, my guess is that they then know they did something wrong when you walked into the kitchen and your steak was gone. If you were to pet your dog and praise it every time it ate your steak off the counter, do you think the dog would hightail it out of the kitchen the next time it ate your steak and you walked in on him?

Perhaps we will agree to disagree. My feeling is if you don't catch the animal in the unwanted behavior, any type of punishment (negative stimulus) is wasting both your time and the animals.

 

[DennisArrow]

Teach them "DOWN", "NO" or "STOP" first. Whichever word you prefer to teach them. This is the first step. When you see your dog chasing a deer or anything else into traffic that is the most horrible of all feelings. You can start in the kitchen or your garage. Put their dog bowl down and say "NO". They shouldn't be allowed to eat until you say "OK".


Both dogs and our LGD eat together. They all do the sit a stay routine at dinner time. That is a no brainer. Both dogs do stay, stop, of course NO, get down, lay down, sit, go back, fetch, and more. The older dog is trained to herd by me. He understands left, right, push, stop, gate, barn, that one and on and on...........These dogs are NOT just ignored and allowed to run loose................



And you need some fence. One can't keep an eye on a high energy dogs for every second. They need a place they can run free and burn energy off with out getting shocked or yelled out for doing so.[

Both dogs have been kept in a 3 acre fenced pasture for hours, days, and nights to see the results............Same thing.......When one starts the RTV the young one begins to head out.........After X amount of time of inside, doing nothing, herding, running next to the RTV they will give each other the "look" and head for parts unknown.......

The only thing I think I need the shock collar for is for when they begin to run and somewhere between 2 to 3 hundred feet when I know they hear me to stop and DO NOT is to zap them............I have to break this running thing...........Dennis

 

[crazyal]

I have friends that have used them to train labs to retrieve ducks and I have used them to train my beagles to come back to me, two very different things. I'm not going to get into training. I can't remember the brand but it would control two collars and could sound just a tone, just a shock, or both. It had a 1 to 15 range for the shock.

It took almost no time what so ever to teach both of the beagles (one an ex-rabbit dog) that when they heard me yell they needed to come back to me. I didn't care one bit about sitting or staying. I would yell 3 times, if they ignored me I would yell and give them just the tone. If they still didn't respond I would usually hit them with the second to lowest setting. They quickly learned that if they came to me they wouldn't get shocked again.

Once one of them went after a deer and I hit him with the 10 setting, that was a life learning experience that he has never done again. Occasionally I think about giving them a simple refresher, every other year maybe but usually it's just that they are wound up from being inside for a few days and once they get running around they settle down they are fine.

I figure if I can train a beagle to listen to me when chasing a rabbit or other small animal then I must have done something right.

 

[wdchyd]

I figure if I can train a beagle to listen to me when chasing a rabbit or other small animal then I must have done something right.

My Grandpa used to say "In order to train a dog, you need to be smarter than the dog".......(only kidding...:laughing