New Member Wants a New (ok, used) Tractor

[kjung17]

Welcome Trctrgrl,
I think you are looking for something in the 50+ hp range. I would suggest a power reverser type control. This allows the strength and efficiency of a gear transmission with ease of operation. Your local salesmen can help you decide. Get lots of opinions and educate yourself. You sound like you're well ahead of the curve, already.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi, I'm tractor shopping along with my husband. I'm a total newbie. My husband has some experience from his teenage days on his Dad's farm, long since sold, and his current Farmall H (that doesn't have a 3 pt hitch and the FEL doesn't really work). So, I'm here to learn, any comments and suggestions welcome! I posted a few questions below(sorry to be so long winded.)

Land Stats:

• 30 ac. south central PA, 1000 gravel drive subject to drifting
• We put driveway 2 yrs ago, built the shop last summer and the house is slated for next summer (2011). The shop is my husband's main gig and I'm more interested in the farm side of things (and therefore really in need of some tractor learn'n).
• 15 ac in native warm season grasses (little bluestem)
• 10 ac in cool season grasses
• 5 ac rough old alpha field that needs work (aka mowing)

Tractor Use:

• Bushhog 5 ac pasture to maintain for grazing
• Occasional mowing of large pastures but mostly neighbor farmers harvest hay from them
• Move round bales I get from the neighbor's harvest effort
• Move building materials for house, and later for barn, run-in shed and fencing
• Turn compost pile, move garden materials, plant windbreak & orchard trees
• Maintain driveway (plow in winter, occasional scrape/level/add gravel)
• Other stuff?

Tractor Thoughts Thus Far:

• Used, ~$15k, Name brand (Kubota, JD, NH)
• FEL with purchase, and used 6 bushhog this year
• Used Plow/blower before next winter (2012), maybe this year if we get lucky
• Other implements later as time/money allows
• Cab for winter wind protection, after-market is OK

Some General Questions (before we get down to tractor details)

Ergonomics: I really have trouble using my husband's old tractor as I can not reach the controls and have to hang off of it to set the brake. At 5' 1" tall I don't feel safe on it, but he likes it just fine (at 6'2"). I'm wondering if any of you guys out there share your tractor with the little lady. Any suggestions? My husband said I need to try them out when we go shopping, but since I really don't know how to drive one well, I'm concerned about trying it in a lot packed with pricey equipment. Yikes!

Future Hay: I know I need the bushhog this summer. But to tell the truth, in the back of my mind I have an idea that (in the future) I would like to be able to cut a small amount of our pasture for my own hay (1 ac maybe) rather than relying on the neighbor (he lets it get really mature). I know a baler is out of our price range and more than I want to do but I was just thinking if I could cut a small amount and get a used tender, then maybe I could just hand-fork it onto the trailer we already have. But a bushog isn't the tool for that, right? So, is there equipment that I could use to both mow tall weeds (in the 5 ac pasture) and cut a small section of the good pasture for loose hay? Or am I just crazy?

Blower vs Plow: I was surprised to see on another post how many of you recommended a blower instead of a plow for a long drive with snowdrift problems. From what little I've seen, a blower means you have to attach it to the back and then drive backwards the whole time to clear the drive. Forgive me if I sound like a whiny girl, but that sounds hard to do. I stink at backing up (in cars anyway). Do you guys really look over your shoulder for 1000'+ feet of driveway?

Dealing with Dealers: We've been looking in the farming paper for used tractors but the dealers seem to have much better selection so I imagine that will wind up buying there. We don't mind paying a fair price, but don't want to overpay either. Are dealers open to negotiating used tractors? How the economic slow down impacted the price of used tractors?

Congratulations on putting some thought into what your requirements are at this point in time. You're off to a good start in purchasing a tractor.

I find it interesting that you have warm season grasses in central PA. How did that come about? What condition is that pasture? I'm kind of surprised that you could maintan that kind of pasture in that location. It seems like it would eventually revert to cool season grasses without some effort to maintan the bluestem. But I digress.

I would strongly recommend you reconsider haying your place because it will be expensive to get good equipment, or considering the work entailed and it just won't pencil out on 30 acres. Have you looked at the NCRS soil data and see what you can produce on your land? It will take so many acres under ideal conditions to produce the hay tonnage for one horse or cow, etc. That, together with the feed requirements to winter an animal will size the number of livestock you can have.

My advice:Have someone who will cut rake and bale to your requirements or consider buying your hay from someone who makes will hay at the right time. Round baling is real labor saving but it imposes horsepower requirements on the tractor that will drive you to a big machine. And if the tractor doesn't start, horses don't eat! I have a small cattle ranch and I buy about 5T of small squares (plus about 60T of large rounds either customed off part of our place or from local ranchers) in case I get sick or have to leave for awhile and my wife can feed those out of the pickup. For a small horse outfit you'll want to stick to small squares in my opinion. And if you insist on haying, the horsepower requirements are more moderate and the equipment is cheaper.

Even though you have put some thought into your requirements,soil conditions, weather and other "unks" will make you wish you had a little more weight and horsepower.

If you're going to have an FEL then I strongly recommend 4WD. The front axles is pretty heavily loaded for FEL work and the 4WD axles are stronger than a 2WD axle. You'll also appreciate having 4WD in the mud with something in the loader bucket. (I was feeding a large round bale into a feeder with my 2WD Ford 4610 and got stuck in the mud to far from the feeder to drop the bale with damaging the feeder and I couldn' go forward or backward. I finally raised and tilted the bale moveng the bale cg enough to get some traction to back out. Needless to say my newest tractor has 4WD.)

Are you planning on cleaning stalls with the tractor? If so, you'll either need a lot of access to get in a good sized utuity machine or you'll be limited to a small tractor.
With regard to snow blowing you can get a front mount snow blower that will attach to a FEL but you'll need a lot of bucks as they are quite expensive . The rear mounts make you back up to utilize them but they are cheaper and easier to hook up. I would not recommend a blade because of the possibility of drifts. Some one might have a different opinion. I might add, other than having your head screwed around backwards, tractors are eaisier to back up then a car, in my opinion.
On the issue of cabs, I'm kind of long in the tooth to be feeding cows in a Montana winter with an open station machine but I have done so for the past eight years. I splurged and bought a cab tractor a few months ago (NH TD95D) but we have had so much snow that I've used that to clear lanes in the pasture to feed and clear the driveways that I haven't put the new bale spear on and the spinner and used it to feed. A cab is neat for winter work and probably almost a must for snow blowing but if you have a lot of trees on the property, you must really watch what you're doing with them.We're located on prairie with few trees so it's not a problem here. But it's something to consider if you're going to work in the trees.

My advice to you is to consider a tractor in the 40-50 hp class. You'll need about 30 HP just to run a 6 foot rotary mower in heavy conditions on hills etc. It should have a minimum of two hydraulic remotes; three is better. I think it should be 4WD with a quick attach FEL with a midmount loader valve so it doesn't take up your remotes. Cab or no cab, your call. Whatever HP you decide on, get the heaviest weight for a given HP that you can afford. Weight is what allows you to put HP to the ground.

Try to get a tractor with all the stuff you think you need factory installed or get the factory kits if you have to add something. Those kits are designed to go on your machine and are usually better engineered. They are not cheap, however a tractor lasts a long time compared to a car. Size a snowblower to the width of the rear wheels and make sure you have enough HP to meet the manufacturer's requirements.
Whose going to do the maintenance, the dealer or your husband? If it's your husband, make sure that a lot of special tools are not required for routine maintenance and the the service access is convenient.
Ergonomics? if you are both going to use it then it has to work for both of you. Get on it and drive it back it use all the controls. Same for your husband. The seats are adjustable and the newer equipment is designed with more thought to the ergonomics that are the old tractors. Make sure it fits both of you!

Dealer support? You're going to need filters and spare parts so having a dealer nearby to support you is important especailly if you are newbies. If you are a "do it yourselfer" (like me), you can find the parts on web and they can be shippped directly to you. Sometimes it 's cheaper but you'd still like to have a dealer nearby when something breaks and you can get a part in a few hours rather than a week later. I work it both ways. if the dealer is within a few bucks and has it in stock I'll get it from them. If it's a big price difference, I order it online.

Brands? I would stick with the major brands mainly because of the parts support and because they know how to design machines for the US market. The South Koreans are moving into Ag machinery in a big way but only a few brands a have a stable dealer network. They offer a 5 year warrantee but what good id that if the guy you bought it from is no longer a dealer and the nearest dealer is 300 miles away? Plus, in my opinion, they haven't the US market figured out design-wise. NH/CIH, JD, MF, Kubota are all good name brands.
To get an idea of pricing, look on tractorhouse.com to see ASKING PRICES.Everything is negotiable. Just don't get into "I have to have this machine" mode. If you need data on HP and weight, tractordata.com is the place to start.

I know this is long winded but I was in your position once and I just wanted to share some of my experience in hopes that it would be of use to you. Any question? Get back to me.

 

[Don87]

Don't forget about MF also.

But I agree with the others...........40 to 70 HP.............used gives you a wider range with budgeting.

It's hard to buy too much tractor(in your sutuation).

You can do loose hay..........the Amish still do it this way..............but they cut mainly by hand, and make mounds.(i've seen bush hogs used, but I didn't care for the quality of the cut).
Get a rear blower for central Pa.(east of the mountains) But be sure to have the FEL.

And by all means..........check every tractor for ergonomincs............1 foot difference between you and hubby is a lot. We got the Massey because of this.........it fit both of us.

 

[Egon]

I really have trouble using my husband's old tractor as I can not reach the controls and have to hang off of it to set the brake.

Have your husband move the seat forward.:thumbsup:

Tractor wise just keep sitting/test driving them till one feels good to you and your husband. Size it for the largest piece of equipment you will handle.

Really consider an HST with cruise control.

Haying for a few acres may be easier than you think. Just revert back to some methods used prior to baling. One method would require a sickle bar mower, side delivery rake [ tedder if required] and your tractor with a set of forks made for the loader. Cut, rake into windrows, pickup with the tractor and dump in the storage area. The storage should be covered. Tarps will do as long as there is a little air space between the tarp and hay.

Prior to bales this was a pretty common method only the tractor had a different type of loader that would lift higher. Stacks were made in the field and then a stack mover was used to bring in the entire stack of hay. Picture of tractor and farmhand attached. Note: for haying a wider and longer set of forks were used.

A lot less work this way than the small bales. In many cases the stacks were made a little smaller, loaded onto a feeding wagon that had a sickle bar to cut off slices of the stack as the farmer drove along the feeding area.

Note: my haying experience is limited to to fairly dry weather conditions so things may be different in your area. [I did get to spend many hours on a horse pulled dump rake during haying season.

 

[jinman]

TrctrGrl, you have lots of good advice here.:thumbsup: Of all the uses I see listed for your tractor, probably handling building materials will be the most challenging. Specialty forklifts on the backs of delivery trucks can make moving 1-ton and 2-ton loads look very easy, but your tractor's FEL will struggle with those loads, even with a 50hp machine. A pallet of concrete, concrete blocks, brick, drywall, and many other items can be super heavy. I'd not only check with the tractor dealers, but also look into the weights of materials you expect to be delivered. Many items will be a snap with a set of pallet forks on the FEL, but others will make your tractor groan and give up the fight pretty quickly.

BTW: Welcome to TBN. I can tell by your detailed questions and responses to answers that you will fit in nicely.

 

[Nature Girl]

Great questions. I am 5' 3" and have rented some serious tractors to brush hog and barely lived to talk about it. The last year has been focused on looking at every tractor ad on Craigslist and researching for the perfect tractor to get the job done and fit my frame.

A man down the street was selling his used tractor and I took it for a drive. He was kind enough to drop by to look at my land and be honest enough to say "Don't buy my tractor, you need a 4 WD Kubota with Hydro and a FEL."

I debated and finally took the exciting plunge this week on the Kubota L3700 with quick attach bucket and easy 3 PT hitch set up. I also got the fluid in the tires for extra weight. The L3800 is replacing the L3700 so you can get a really good deal right now.

I laughed and asked the saleman that now that I have the Kubota do I really need a man too? He said, now that you have a tractor you are a real catch. Good luck and once you sit in the seat you will know if it's the tractor for you. The power will be there for your husband and the comfort and safety there for you.

 

[TripleR]

Great questions. I am 5' 3" and have rented some serious tractors to brush hog and barely lived to talk about it. The last year has been focused on looking at every tractor ad on Craigslist and researching for the perfect tractor to get the job done and fit my frame.

A man down the street was selling his used tractor and I took it for a drive. He was kind enough to drop by to look at my land and be honest enough to say "Don't buy my tractor, you need a 4 WD Kubota with Hydro and a FEL."

I debated and finally took the exciting plunge this week on the Kubota L3700 with quick attach bucket and easy 3 PT hitch set up. I also got the fluid in the tires for extra weight. The L3800 is replacing the L3700 so you can get a really good deal right now.

I laughed and asked the salesman that now that I have the Kubota do I really need a man too? He said, now that you have a tractor you are a real catch. Good luck and once you sit in the seat you will know if it's the tractor for you. The power will be there for your husband and the comfort and safety there for you.

My wife is 5'4" easily operates our L5030 HSTC. She is a little intimidated with our M8540 due to the size and hydraulic shuttle shift, so I am not going to push the issue. I believe she can drive it if she put her mind to it.

 

[TrctrGrl]

...I find it interesting that you have warm season grasses in central PA. How did that come about? What condition is that pasture? I'm kind of surprised that you could maintan that kind of pasture in that location. It seems like it would eventually revert to cool season grasses without some effort to maintan the bluestem. But I digress.

Yes, warm season grass (WSG) is a bit of an oddity 'round here. I used the income after several years of renting out the property (soybean/corn) to invest in planting the pastures in for our future use. I selected the WSG and cool season grass (CSG) combo (in separate fields) for several reasons that I won't go into here, except to say a primary hope is to provide forage for a rotational grazing program from roughly April through Dec. The first year (2008) was an act of faith for the WSG, as it was way more weeds than grass even though I had started with a near ideal situation. I had the seed drilled into a clean field following soybean. However, by the summer of 2010 the WSG field was a gorgeous thick blue-green sea and the neighbors got two highly productive cuttings from it.

As you noted, CSG encroachment will be an issue. I hope to use intensive early spring grazing to knock back invasive CSG in the WSG fields. Limited spot spraying and small scale controlled burns (legal but yikes for neighbor relations!) are other less desirable options. For now, things are under control and I can often be found walking the fields with trusty scythe in hand to go after the errant bunch of whatever. Where there's a will there's a way, eh? So far so good, but time will be the real judge on how our little prairie matures. As you can see, I'm really interested in forage, some might say obsessed. So I'm all ears if you have more you want to discuss more - but we may have to move it elsewhere.

And now back to tractors...

 

[TrctrGrl]

On Haying:
Thanks Jerry/MT, Don87 and Egon for your comments on haying. It is great to hear the opinions of others who've been there, done that. As for me, well, I'm not seriously considering baling hay (either square or round) - sorry if my original post was not clear. The equipment is too expensive and more than we want to maintain.

Most of the surrounding farms to us are Amish. I occasionally see them harvest small plots of small grains by hand, but for haying they use horse drawn diesel powered balers. My husband and I both have an interest in long gone farming techniques and we live in the right area to be exposed to such things. Last year I took a weekend workshop and got a chance to use a horse drawn disc, plow and even a walk behind plow (hard work that was!). And in my husband's family they like to tell the story of when, on their Dad's hobby farm, they used some antique equipment to get a few acres of hay in. One year when they had been naughty and complaining about the work of loading the bales, as punishment, his Dad told them they would bring in the hay without the baler - hand forking it on the wagon and again, loose into the hay loft. They all laugh now, but he said it was WAY more work than doing the bales. And then the hay packed together and they had to saw out blocks of it to use all winter long. Ah, the good 'ol days.

For me, cutting and putting up a small amount of my own loose hay, when the grass is just at its peak and I find an open window in the weather ... well, its really just a thing for fun. And along with the fun it should produce something useful and not be too expensive to do, sort of like gardening or orchards on a small family farm. Anyway, this is an activity to try or not, several years from now as we've got way more pressing issues, like getting the house up next summer, then pole barn and fencing and..

So, just to clear things up, a baler won't be on the list of tasks the tractor needs to do. Somthing that could mow when needed, or cut for hay when needed would be great - but I suspect they don't make an implement for that (gotta buy two).

 

[TrctrGrl]

Summary:
Thanks everyone for your continued input. So much great advice! We did a bit of initial tractor shopping this past weekend. It was good to sit on a few. For those still interested, here is the current summary, with a few follow-up questions peppered in there.

Egonomics: Try it before you buy it got it and that's what we'll do. And Don - Thanks for the tip on the ergonomics of the Massey, we will have to check those out.

Snow Blower: I agree with what Jerry/MT mentioned, that the visibility on a tractor is much better than in a car. At first I thought I would have trouble using a rear mount snow blower but that I've sat on a few, I think I'll be able to handle it just fine when we eventually get one.

Budget: We had originally been thinking in the 20-30 HP range, and hence my initial budget of ~15K for tractor and FEL. My husband's teenage farming days on his Dad's place were on an old (even at that time) 2WD 23HP tractor, so that was his frame of reference (i.e. 30 HP and 4WD is way more by comparison). But we have upped the HP now, based in part on the feedback here and his discussion with a dealer on how part of the HP is used up by the HST. So since more HP is more $ - go figure on that one - we're considering:
- finding some more $ in our budget
- looking at tractors with more hours
- delaying purchase of any implements (put that $ toward tractor + FEL)

Cab: We don't have trees to worry about but thanks for the tip on that. But a cab with the initial purchase is way out of our budget, so it is off the wish list. And we really only need something for nasty winter weather. Maybe a 'winter cab' that I read about on another thread will do fine, and can be added later. Or my husband said I can borrow his welding helmet to protect me (ha ha). Gosh he's so good to me.

Brands/Dealer: We're OK buying private, if we can find a tractor. The TractorHouse.com site is great, thanks for recommending it. And Jerry/MT, thanks for mentioning tractordata.com because it sure helps to compare the numbers.
My husband will be doing the maintenance. He is more than capable and he wants to stick to well know brands so that he knows he can get parts now and, God willing, thirty+ years from now when we'll still be doing maintenance on the same machine. That matches up with what many of you have recommended so we're on the same page there.

Tractor Power/Drive: We'll stick to 4WD. Everyone recommends an HST and I can see it certainly would be easy to use. However, we both drive a stick car/truck, daily. As I understand it from the dealer, geared tractors are easier then stick cars (no clutch to push in) with the advantage being more HP on the ground (not lost to the HST). I find kjung17 suggestion interesting, "... suggest a power reverser type control. This allows the strength and efficiency of a gear transmission with ease of operation..." And from my husband's POV he wonders about the HST before it needs maintenance since he won't be able to do that part. So, all that being said, just kicking it around:
- To be more clear from my original post: no baler and no moving of round bales from the neighbor (per Jerry/MT's good suggestions on how to manage the hay process), so maybe less power is needed (?)
- Trade off the HST to get more HP (on the ground) at less cost overall but granted less convenience in operation.
- OR keep the HST but back off of the HP (say, 40 max, add weight as needed)
Any further comments?

Building Materials: We may not find a tractor before we start building the house so this just applies IF we do indeed get one in soon (I hope so, but don't want to buy wrong). I hope to store some building materials in the shop (about 150 from the house site) and move them as needed. Jinman, thanks for your comments on this issue: "...Many items will be a snap with a set of pallet forks on the FEL, but others will make your tractor groan and give up the fight pretty quickly." Good to know. I was thinking of maybe, if needed, loading materials just a few feet from ground onto the trailer (pulled by our truck), then drive them 150 to the house and unload (or leave the trailer there for the subs). I'm not sure how this will work out, really. I was the GC for the shop (while Hubby was at work) and I'll be the on-site GC for the house too. I had a good working relationship with our subs before, so I plan to ask them how they want to run things, and take their advice into account. Some of them have their own means of moving materials, so don't. I have some skills in managing people and projects and was able to apply that in building the shop. But I'm ignorant as a new born on tractor operation and I don't want to be in find myself (or my subs) in a world of hurt with a tons of materials overhead.

Mower: In discussing with a dealer, we're rethinking the bush hog mower. Our entire 30 ac (except for one tree line on one of the property boundaries) is pasture, converted from row crops with nary a sapling in sight. So the dealer was saying that maybe a finish mower would be better, given our situation. Any comments?

Thanks all for your time that was quite a lot to read through!