looking at a 09 superduty 6.4L powerstroke

[Builder]

The only way to know the truth here would be to test the thermocouples in oil and see how they are calibrated. Installed location, fluid level all have an impact. And in the case of the digital gauges, software is also an issue. So far, mine behave like regular gauges. It sure takes much longer to lift the needle since I got back to MI... I had a Nissan where the water temperature sender was mounted high on the head. If I lost 2 quarts of coolant, i was no longer immersed in coolant but was well enough isolated from the mount to not sense the temperature of the block. So the temperature would first drop and only rise when steam was generated. It wasn't the fault of the sender or gauge, just bad placement.

No microprocessor controlled device has the display connected directly to the sender. That does NOT mean that the value displayed is not proportional to the value at the sender, which is what you are implying.
I guess every page I print in my laserjet must be garbage since the printer is not directly connected to my LCD display if I follow the same logic...

All one needs is a heater (hot plate) a stainless soup bowl, the appropriate fluid, the sending unit to be tested and an independently verified thermometer to test the calibration. If you have a scan tool, you may be able to read the digital value as processed by the microprocessor and compare this to your verified thermometer. The fact is that the gauges don't have calibrated markings and I think that it has been "dumbed down" for the consumer. That does not mean that the PCM does not know what the temperature is or that the display is not proportional. I also thought this thread was about a 2009 model year, not an 06. There was a significant facelift in 08 so much may have changed, but the principles stay the same.

Here you go. It was tested right here and proves the torqshift trans temp gauge is not much better than an idiot light and reads "normal" when the trans fluid temps are in the 230-250 range. You are correct in not assuming your's is the same one they used when I considered buying an '07 Torqsh. equipped Ford. However, it factored in my decision along with all the other bulletins that I read either from Dieselman's or directly from Ford bulletins about their trucks before I bought a truck. If I were you, I'd want to know.

If your trans fluid is 230-250 do you consider that "normal"?

Most AFT fluids consider normal operating temps to be 175-190 degrees. For every jump of 20* above that, you can cut your trans fluid life in HALF!

So if you're running around in your Ford in the "normal" temp range of your torqshift temp gauge, you could be at 230* and still be considered "normal" (not even in the yellow zone). Heck at 250* it's still in the "yellow" or "marginal" temp zone. I don't know about you, but I'd like to be informed there's a problem at 230-250*.
Would anyone like the idea of their gauge not being in the red when operating their auto trans temps at 230-250 degrees? I know I would !!

dieselmann's editorial

 

[jcmseven]

I grew too tired to read all these posts and by this time this response may be moot. I had a 2008 Ford 250 6.4L and I really liked it. It was smooth and reliable for the time I had it. I sold it with low miles and bought my GMC that I am now driving. I like the GMC better for several reasons, but the Ford was a really good truck and the powertrain was fine. It towed really well and I achieve decent mileage. My average unloaded highway was around 17 and I got about 11 pulling an 8000-10000 pound load. My truck had the updated programming and 3.73 gears. Those trucks with 4.10 gears did not do well on fuel as the 6.4 was a very "rev sensitive" engine. If our OP has not said in the 500 posts this thread has accumulated that he has already bought the truck, I hope this helps him. Otherwise forgive my beebling.

John M

 

[slowzuki]

As a note, this was written in 2002, when the 4R100 ruled the roost. A lot can happen to a little averaging algorithm in the computer in the years since.

I've not seen any serious complaints about this before, and most guys doing the cummins swap just bush in the Ford sending units to fit in their cummins.

dieselmann's editorial

 

[Builder]

As a note, this was written in 2002, when the 4R100 ruled the roost. A lot can happen to a little averaging algorithm in the computer in the years since.

.

Of course, but it's speculation to assume they did or didn't, and what about the trucks that Ford didn't change?

This guy is one of the most acclaimed authorities on the Powerstroke. You can't be suggesting the guy is wrong, can you?

 

[westcliffe01]

Builder, to settle this last issue, would you agree that a scan tool will read the temperature correctly in degrees directly from the CPU ? If I have any concern, I could then hook up the scan tool and compare the temperature in degrees to the position of the needle on the gauge. If "normal" is normal, I should be able to call it good, right ?

 

[Builder]

Builder, to settle this last issue, would you agree that a scan tool will read the temperature correctly in degrees directly from the CPU ? If I have any concern, I could then hook up the scan tool and compare the temperature in degrees to the position of the needle on the gauge. If "normal" is normal, I should be able to call it good, right ?

I guess if that's how you want to check it. Now would you give me the courtesy of answing a question for me:

Would you agree I've proven with research done by a competent person that the Ford trans temp gauge is more like an idiot light and doesn't tell you the trans fluid is too hot before it's too late in some, if not many superduty ford trucks?

BTW: I appreciate your open mindedness and not resorting to personal insults.

 

[westcliffe01]

I don't agree to anything yet. I believe the gauges display temperature proportional to what the sender sees. Why there is no calibrated scale, we have to ask Ford. Actually we do know why, because then they would have to do one for Celsius and another for Fahrenheit for sure... I am prepared to put money down that the gauge will indicate higher if the oil temperature is higher and that it should be within 10% of the value measured with a calibrated thermocouple, compared to the value transmitted on the Can bus. I'm also prepared to bet that there is no sudden "jump" in the displayed value. Are you game ? And we will be testing my 2008 MY since that is what this thread is about.

An idiot light is a binary quantity, on or off. I have never seen a temperature gauge behave that way unless it was defective. I am alarmed when the gauge behaves in any way it is not expected, either too low or too high. And I understand why instruments are built the way they are today. The decision not to show a calibrated scale is made by the manufacturer and differs widely. My Audi showed the redline temperature value. Below was green, above was red. Simple to understand and you knew how hot it actually got.

Maybe that is your primary beef, that there is no scale ?

I guess if that's how you want to check it. Now would you give me the courtesy of answing a question for me:

Would you agree I've proven with research done by a competent person that the Ford trans temp gauge is more like an idiot light and doesn't tell you the trans fluid is too hot before it's too late in some, if not many superduty ford trucks?

BTW: I appreciate your open mindedness and not resorting to personal insults.

 

[Builder]

I wasn't talking about your particular truck, just that the SD in general had a problem with the trans temp gauge when I was buying in '07. I based my conclusion on the dieselman's article and based on his findings (which I respect), it acts more like an idiot light because when it's registering in the yellow or red, it's too late and the trans fluid is already cooked. That to me is essentially an idiot gauge. In all my years of CDL trucking, driving triaxles for local haulers, I've never seen a truck trans temp gauge set up to warn the operator that the fluid is too hot after it's too late.

On edit yes maybe my primary beef is lack of correct scale, it's that when the needle on the ford trans temp gauge is in the "normal" zone, your trans temp fluid could be 230+ degrees. I would call that highly defective. You don't, but that's OK. We agree to disagree. You don't have to believe his finding or mine.

Nevermind running your test. I'm sure it'll come out perfectly calibrated. You win on that one. Thanks for the discussion :thumbsup:

 

[JESSE1]

I've had many, many Fords and this has always been my biggest gripe with them. I'd like a gauge to register from 0 to 300 and actually show me the temperature of the oil or coolant. It would be nice if the gauges acted like the Stewart Warner gauges used in trucks. Analog gauges would be fine.

 

[westcliffe01]

The weird part is that they have a multi function display. All they have to do is give you the option to display whatever parameter you want. If its transmission fluid temp, you should be able to see the value in degrees right on the display. Getting a multi function tool that displays the can bus data is probably not a bad idea since one may need it for fault codes anyway, and its use will help one know exactly how your system works, how the gauges are calibrated and skip all the speculation.

Builder, you might not want to assert that a problem that existed in 2002 (which may have been legit at the time) is still the same 6 or 8 years later. You may also poke around in the forums to see if the gauge clusters on your favorite vehicle still work the way you think they do in 2011. Chevy may have gone to the "dark side" too by now...