off road diesel or regular diesel

[criddlesperger]

got the yanmar ym2010 haven't had a chance to really run it yet too cold. should i run regular diesel or off road diesel, thanks.

 

[Car Doc]

Yup what he said only the price and color I use red because I can.

 

[clemsonfor]

I'll repeat what the others said. there the same thing only difference is that the offroad is dyed red to be used in non taxible senarios, like off the road applications like marine applications, generators, dirtworks equiptment and ag applications. So there is no tax on it.

That being said, in the past and still in areas where i live offroad deisel is Low sulpher deisel(150ppm) and on road is Ultra low sulfer deisel (15 ppm). Both are ok in your tractor as it was designed to run on high sulfer deisel. The off road is prolly better as it has more lubrication qualites and more energy per gallon. But no need to worry or ask and frive all over to get it the ULSD is fine.

 

[criddlesperger]

thanks for the help. wasn't sure if it could be ran off this ulsd. i use both in my mitsubishi, just depends on if i can get offroad or not sometimes its hard to comeby around here. :thumbsup:

 

[rScotty]

thanks for the help. wasn't sure if it could be ran off this ulsd. i use both in my mitsubishi, just depends on if i can get offroad or not sometimes its hard to comeby around here. :thumbsup:

Or go down to the place and pick up some diesel fuel additive. Anti-gel and lubricity. A five dollar bottle will last a long time.
rScotty

 

[YannyMan]

Or go down to the place and pick up some diesel fuel additive. Anti-gel and lubricity. A five dollar bottle will last a long time.
rScotty

Agreed. Fuel lubricated injection pumps like the additives with the ULSD.

 

[Neat 1500]

Agreed. Fuel lubricated injection pumps like the additives with the ULSD.

even cheaper way to do it, run 300:1 of 2 stroke oil in the diesel. i do this for my landcruiser,1500 and now the YM14. takes care of low lubricity ULSD.use the non marine type also.

 

[284 International]

Neat 1500, what do you mean by "non-marine type?" How did you come up with 300:1 as the mixing ratio? I'm just curious.

 

[clemsonfor]

Neat 1500, what do you mean by "non-marine type?" How did you come up with 300:1 as the mixing ratio? I'm just curious.

Hes talking about 2stroke oil. There is TCW3 oil and regular 2stroke oil. The TCW is Two-Cycle Water cooled oil designed to fully combust at lower temperatures cause of the water cooled heads from the lake that operate at a lower temp than saw a chainsaw or a weedwacker that is cooled with outside air.

That said, I would think you would want the marine type so that it will fully combust at a low temp and not coke up on your valves. Which is what will happen if you use air cooled oil in your outboard, cause its not hotenough in the engine!

 

[schoolsout]

I'm not a tractor owner (yet), but I run Power Service in my diesel Jetta. They say ULSD (in the US) is some of the worst when it comes to "scar factor." I use gray bottle of PS, but white bottle has anti-gel stuff in it. Wal-mart and other chain auto stores have it. Not expensive at all.

Also, if you can get your hands on B100 and mix in about a qt. / 15 gallons or so (only know this because car fuel tank is 14.5 gals), it will provide superior lubricity. This coming from some TDi geeks

 

[criddlesperger]

thanks for the help. i will run the diesel additive because the off-road diesel is very hard to find around here, and when you do, you half to have an account that the state has to approve is what the co-op told me today.

 

[clemsonfor]

thanks for the help. i will run the diesel additive because the off-road diesel is very hard to find around here, and when you do, you half to have an account that the state has to approve is what the co-op told me today.

Not sure you understood what we were saying. Most likely where you live the off-road and onroad are the same fuel. There is no difference in the additives that are in either of them. The only difference is RED dye that is put in to let the DOT know that there are no taxes on offroad fuel. This way they can put strips in the tank of trucks on the highway and if they are red they know they are running non-taxed fuel. That being said additives are a good idea, for no more than you will use, even if it does nothing you wont be out $10yr for the quantity of fuel you prolly will use.

 

[TRR]

clemsonfor and criddlesperger, you are both correct. Texas does require a certification form from the purchaser to be approved by the state and that has to be on file with the coop before they will let you purchase the red fuel. They can provide you the form. Just fill it in and send it in, it's almost an automatic approval. Once you get it back, make copies of it and give one copy to the coop. Then everyone is happy. In my area there is about 35 cents difference per gallon. The red dye only indicates that the 35 cents has not been paid to the state for road use tax.

 

[284 International]

I'm fairly ignorant in this area of 2 stroke oils, so I'm looking forward to learning something.

It seems that combustion chamber conditions would be more severe in a diesel engine than in a gasoline one. Is the primary goal of adding lubricant to diesel fuel to help lube the injection pump, or cylinder components, or both?

I thought TC3W was a formulation specific to outboards, that spend a lot of time at idle or low rpm. Some of the high-powered 2 stroke watercraft used to, at least, call for a different specification: API-TC, as I recall. Basically it's an oil for higher stress conditions. Apparently, the TC3W specification oils have caused difficulties with the powervalves (an adjustable section of the exhaust port that changes port timing and thus output traits) in high performance 2 strokes because of deposits left on the moving parts of the powervalves. (Powervalves are not the same, in design or function, as the poppet valves in our diesel engines, for the record.)

So, is it a smarter idea to choose oil intended for more severe conditions, or less severe conditions?

I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just wondering how it has been determined that one type of oil is better for our purposes than others.

In full disclosure, I have run a bunch of leftover synthetic racing oil from my 2 stroke dirt bike days in my tractor's fuel until that supply ran out, and I've been using whatever is on sale at Wal-Mart/Costco. I'm not disapproving of either use, I just like to know what I'm doing, and why. I don't have a why at the moment...

 

[Neat 1500]

Neat 1500, what do you mean by "non-marine type?" How did you come up with 300:1 as the mixing ratio? I'm just curious.

I should have said standard 2 stroke oil, not non marine as i have been told it has other additives( non corrosion and water dispersant detergents) in them as well which for the Landcruisers and Yanmars is not required or recommended. i was reading alot of literature from 4WD clubs here in Australia about the use of 2 stroke oils in ULSD some years ago after it was introduced and most agreed this was a good ratio. they were also speaking to some oil guy who really knew what he was on about, also there were some older guys who had been using 2 stroke oil in their old diesels for 20 or more years an reckon it has helped prolong the pump and engines life no doubt. my Landcruiser had a major pump failure in 2006 which was possibly caused by lack of lubricity, the pump ground itself to bits and over/under dieseled and caused a crank break, new motor and pump thanks and after that most recommended i run 2 stroke as it does not do many miles and i think it is also quieter in operation so i will stick with it i thinks:thumbsup:

 

[Neat 1500]

heres what i have been using for a few years now,$18 for 5 litres. it lasts me more than a year.

 

[284 International]

Neat 1500, I wasn't trying to catch you off-guard or disagree. As I said, I've used a couple different types. The ratios I've seen in my very brief time looking into these things have spanned from 100:1 up to 300:1 or so. The test I attached seems to be one of the standard references in these sorts of discussions.

Their test used outboard motor oil at a ratio they describe as "rationally chosen" of 200:1. I haven't ever seen where that came from "rationally," it seems tough to mix in American units (128 ounces equals a gallon, so this ratio is 1 ounce of oil to 1.56 gallons of fuel).

The TC3W oil they tested worked pretty well, but I wonder what it would have done at 128:1, or 300:1, or some other ratio. Neat 1500, you recommended a non-TC3W (non-marine) oil, and clemsonfor recommended exactly the opposite. I respect both of your knowledge and experience, so was wondering how you each got to your positions. I didn't know if there were different rating agencies in Australia for 2 stroke oils. As I said, I've run both types, mostly because of what was available and simple for me to do. I wish I had more empirical data. Sorry to take the thread slightly off-topic.

 

[clemsonfor]

Neat 1500, I wasn't trying to catch you off-guard or disagree. As I said, I've used a couple different types. The ratios I've seen in my very brief time looking into these things have spanned from 100:1 up to 300:1 or so. The test I attached seems to be one of the standard references in these sorts of discussions.

Their test used outboard motor oil at a ratio they describe as "rationally chosen" of 200:1. I haven't ever seen where that came from "rationally," it seems tough to mix in American units (128 ounces equals a gallon, so this ratio is 1 ounce of oil to 1.56 gallons of fuel).

The TC3W oil they tested worked pretty well, but I wonder what it would have done at 128:1, or 300:1, or some other ratio. Neat 1500, you recommended a non-TC3W (non-marine) oil, and clemsonfor recommended exactly the opposite. I respect both of your knowledge and experience, so was wondering how you each got to your positions. I didn't know if there were different rating agencies in Australia for 2 stroke oils. As I said, I've run both types, mostly because of what was available and simple for me to do. I wish I had more empirical data. Sorry to take the thread slightly off-topic.

I would not really say i recomend a tcw3, sorry if it sounded that way. I was just saying in my mind it would make more sense to use an aircooled oil. Neat explained that there were some additives on the tcw3 that were not needed or wanted, i can go with this. Again i really have no experience here.

 

[HCJtractor]

Don't forget that if "off road" is hard to find, you can use home heating oil and it is also cheaper than standard diesel. I am not sure how it compares in terms of sulfur content. That is sold everywhere around here and can easily be delivered if you have a tank or drum and need that quantity.

 

[clemsonfor]

Don't forget that if "off road" is hard to find, you can use home heating oil and it is also cheaper than standard diesel. I am not sure how it compares in terms of sulfur content. That is sold everywhere around here and can easily be delivered if you have a tank or drum and need that quantity.

HHO should be ULSD in most places. I think here for a little longer it still is LSD. But anyhow it is the smae product as offroad, even red in color. Most places will want to deliver at least 100 gallons though. In a yanmar that will last you 5 years!! I do go to the local distributer and had a drum filled up to fill my fuel oil tank at the farm for heat and when thru i topped the tank off in the tractor.