Hybrid Tractor

[stlawrence]

I've been renting (while overseas working) a Ford Escape Hybrid. I love this thing.

It's got me thinking. One of the downside of hybrid cars is the weight of the batteries. But in a tractor, weight is a good thing. So, why no hybrid tractors?

Look, a hybrid tractor could work. When I'm under load, the diesel would kick in. Plowing, bush hogging, etc - the diesel would carry the load.

But when I'm moving from field to field, or carrying the FEL full, the hybrid could kick in.

Why not? What do you guys think?

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Sounds expensive...:thumbsup:

 

[Johndeere3720]

That is a very good idea. There are a lot of different ways to power tractors, i cant see why that wouldnt work.

 

[not2old]

It's OK if you can build it yourself and are then able to fix it. I believe in the kiss principle in almost everything. Can you imagine the bill when getting it fixed? Look at the Toyota Prius. Between the cost of purchase and value for resale, this car costs more to own than the regular model.

 

[vaskeet]

check out this diesel hybrid that cummins was working on It uses the waste heat of the diesel to generate and drive a steam engine Randy
Cummins ISX Diesel Engine - Diesel Tech - Diesel Power Magazine

 

[mdelmarcelle]

It's my understanding that hybrids increase fuel efficiency because they capture engery that is typically lost during normal driving, mostly braking or coasting downhill. And they save fuel by shutting the gas engine off while stopped. With a tractor, there isn't really a lot of braking going on that results in lost energy. And the wear and tear that would occur by stopping and starting a deisel engine when it's stopped would probably outway the fuel saved. Capturing the heat from the exhaust and using it to power a steam engine is a neat concept. But I imgaine he upkeep and cost of the steam engine would outway the savings as well.

Perhaps a way to increase fuel efficiency using the hybrid concept would be to capture solar engery. Cars typically don't have the surface area to capture a significant amount of solar energy. But perhaps one could make a large trailer to carry a large solar panel to capture a relatively substantial amount of energy. I'm guessing the amount of engery captured, however, would be less the the amount of engery it would take to pull the trailer through a soft, bumpy field.

 

[chrisott]

OK, the tractor could handle the battery size. Now how is the battery going to be recharged after it is depleted? The Prius recharges the battery while the car is coasting and while the brakes are gently applied. I can't imagine either of these activities in a tractor accounting for very much recharging. I'm not knocking the idea, just pointing out one of the challenges.

 

[crazyal]

How often is your tractor not under load? When I start mine up I let it idle to warm up then it's off to work we go. If snow blowing it's less than a minute while if dragging logs I may spend a few minutes driving to the log. The steering is hydraulically powered so the steering would need to be converted to electricity.

Of course if done right the wheels would be powered with an electric motor, maybe with a couple of gears so there would be no need for a clutch and speed control would be just like a HST.

 

[stlawrence]

Hmmm. All good points - how would the batteries be recharged? How often is a tractor not under load? What damage would be done to a diesel engine, cutting on and off? How irritating would it be to have the diesel cutting off, then on again - it's not like a quiet car, where you hardly hear the engine anyway.

I guess these are all good reasons why I am not in charge of product development at John Deere.

Still and all, as Dad used to say, with the cost of diesel going up and up, there has to be something - maybe the biodiesel is an answer.

Maybe for dairy farmers, somehow capturing the methane from the manure production could be a solution.

Question is, in 30 years will we still have tractors essentially as they are now, or will there be significant mechanical differences?

 

[mike69440]

I can see Hybrid tractor used on larger TLB's etc, where you can use a smaller motor to store energy for times where you need burst power over short time intevals, but for normal machines, that do PTO and ground engagement, little ROI.

 

[RoyJackson]

As far as Compact Tractors, I just don't see a market. These machines are quite frugal with fuel as it is, so where's the advantage? Even if you consider emissions, it's not like most of these machines are used daily (or even weekly, except for mowing).
Industrial users that are much more sensitive to fuel economy might have a market (meaning large farm complexes).

As far as machines that capture braking energy...good applications are city buses and light rail, especially in Europe (smaller countries, congested cities), Asia and South America (congested cities). Not much use other then that. BTW, some of these systems are called "Retarders".

 

[gwjd]

best deal would be a diesel electric
with a smaller bat that fills in the gap caused buy instantaneous power surges

that way a smaller diesel could run at a max efficiency rpm

also you could have 3 independent electric drives: one drive, one hydro, one PTO

cheek out the new cat d7e

but in a crop tractor ..... or a landscapers tractor that logd a lot of hours


but this all sounds to big and cost prohibitive for cuts

 

[CompactTractorFan]

it's not like most of these machines are used daily (or even weekly, except for mowing).

I use mine almost everyday during warm weather...:thumbsup:

 

[RoyJackson]

I use mine almost everyday during warm weather...:thumbsup:

OK...why day?

OK, ONE person uses his CUT daily....any others?

 

[bullbreaker]

Here's about as close to a hybrid tractor that I'd want right now. 2007 YANMAR T80 40 HP to 99 HP For Sale At TractorHouse.com
(hybrid tracs)
Boone

 

[nspec]

+1 on the diesel electric. There are many benefits to this setup. Not nearly as maintenence intensive as everyone thinks. Actually very simple and reliable. Been around for years. Recent technology has driven many improvements and simplification. I believe in addition to the D7E, Deere has a working prototype. All of the mining equipment (I'm talking about the above ground stuff) - loaders, excavators, and those big giant off-road dump trucks (with the exception of CAT) are diesel electric and have been for many many years, so they have a proven track record.

 

[nspec]

Anybody who's wondering about this technology on compact units should check out the John Deere 2500E Greens Mower. It's got a Yanmar diesel and a 48volt alternator (no additional batteries) which sends powers to electric motors driving the reel mowers. Infinitely adjustable speeds on the mower this way, very compact, quiet, and super efficient. The machine itself is still hydraulically driven.

They claim they have eliminated 102 hydraulic leak points. Also show a video of the electric motors running underwater.

Cool stuff.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Going back in time to the 1970s when I was a young teenager and my father worked for General Electric; he was an electrical design engineer for their Elec Trak lawn and garden tractors. They were pure electric, not hybrids. And yes, the battery weight made them very heavy, probably the heaviest tractors in each of their classes. Which meant that in combination with the higher torque produced by electric motors, they could out drawbar pull every gasoline or diesel fueled tractor in their class.

Too bad they were 40 years ahead of their time. They were so quiet you could carry on a conversation with someone right next to them without shouting. No dealing with gas or storing it in the garage. Worked great plowing snow, plowing or tilling a garden, mowing a lawn, or running electrical tools (drills, chainsaws etc) off their on-board plugs. With their biggest model, the E20, you could mow 5 acres of lawn on a single charge. Ft mount mower could get under shrubs and stuff without the branches getting in your face, and the mower deck cut a 3 ft swath. We blew out 300 ft of driveway even with 2 ft of snow dumped on it. Cold weather in the Schenectady NY area didn't cause any noticeable problems with charge or power.

Of course you didn't have the option of taking a gas can out to the south 40 if you ran out of power, so you had to plan ahead and head back to the garage when the charge started reading low. And pushing them by hand, even in neutral, took a lot of work. Nowadays, you could carry a small portable generator with you, or I'd have considered a ROPS with a cover that doubled as a solar charging array.

 

[mike69440]

Going back in time to the 1970s when I was a young teenager and my father worked for General Electric; he was an electrical design engineer for their Elec Trak lawn and garden tractors. They were pure electric, not hybrids. And yes, the battery weight made them very heavy, probably the heaviest tractors in each of their classes. Which meant that in combination with the higher torque produced by electric motors, they could out drawbar pull every gasoline or diesel fueled tractor in their class.

Too bad they were 40 years ahead of their time. They were so quiet you could carry on a conversation with someone right next to them without shouting. No dealing with gas or storing it in the garage. Worked great plowing snow, plowing or tilling a garden, mowing a lawn, or running electrical tools (drills, chainsaws etc) off their on-board plugs. With their biggest model, the E20, you could mow 5 acres of lawn on a single charge. Ft mount mower could get under shrubs and stuff without the branches getting in your face, and the mower deck cut a 3 ft swath. We blew out 300 ft of driveway even with 2 ft of snow dumped on it. Cold weather in the Schenectady NY area didn't cause any noticeable problems with charge or power.

Of course you didn't have the option of taking a gas can out to the south 40 if you ran out of power, so you had to plan ahead and head back to the garage when the charge started reading low. And pushing them by hand, even in neutral, took a lot of work. Nowadays, you could carry a small portable generator with you, or I'd have considered a ROPS with a cover that doubled as a solar charging array.

You know I never considered Lawn Tractors. I was think the kind of stuff hauled on low-boys.

For lawn/garden tractors, battery and to some extent the motor and control cost would make a $2,500 tractor a $4,500 tractor or more. For a smaller yard that you could mow in less than 90 Minutes, this would work. For those who don't want to deal with the fuel and maintenence, and want to be first on the block with the new toy, a well designed machine at a premium price I'd bet would be a commercial sucess.

CALIFORNIA WOULD LOVE IT.

Battery technology being what it is today, practically storing 5 to 8 KWH of power in a lawn tractor in not out of the question.

For those of us with grease under their nails who don't mind poisioning the earth with oil and gas can get a good used polluting lawn tractor for $300-500. It is all sort term economics.

If Electric technology puts the small IC motor out of competion in 20-30 years, I'm all for that.

 

[gwjd]

+1 on the diesel electric. There are many benefits to this setup. Not nearly as maintenence intensive as everyone thinks. Actually very simple and reliable. Been around for years. Recent technology has driven many improvements and simplification. I believe in addition to the D7E, Deere has a working prototype. All of the mining equipment (I'm talking about the above ground stuff) - loaders, excavators, and those big giant off-road dump trucks (with the exception of CAT) are diesel electric and have been for many many years, so they have a proven track record.

a fair amount of underground mining is plug in to the wall electric just showes that machines work just fine with electric moters its storing it that is the problem